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1/2 overpair madness again 1/2 overpair madness again

01-11-2013 , 08:42 PM
Villain has about $500. He's not a good player at all. He has done quite a bit of folding to me personally. Generally, however, he overvalues his hands and plays too loose overall. He double straddled to $12 earlier and called my iso raise of $40 with Q8s. I bet a nine high rainbow flop and he c/r to $150, and showed (very proud of himself). He looks like Jamie Fox only he's no Django.

Hero is a known winner in the room. Jamie saw me drop $300+ the other day on random hands. Mostly, he should see me as an aggressive player who isn't going to mess around in a pot. I have $228.

CO is a random LP with about $200. Nothing special here. Not worthy of a celebrity description.
UTG+1 is a reg with about $300, but not relevant to the hand.

Hand:
preflop: UTG straddles to $4. UTG+1 calls and Hero in MP with AcAd makes it $20. CO calls. Jamie calls in SB. UTG+1 calls.

I had made it $25 over a straddle and caller 3 times previously and it folded around. Hence, the $20 raise. Wasn't happy getting 4 ways.

flop: 9d 9h 4c ($84)
Jamie donks $50. Folds to Hero who calls $50. CO folds.

He seems like the kind of player to try to c/r or slow play a 9, so I decide that I can call and keep his overpairs/random bluffs while not opening myself up too much to a slow played 9 from someone else.

Turn: 9d 9h 4c 3d ($184)
Jamie announces all in quickly. Hero thinks and calls and says, "Show me your 9."
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01-11-2013 , 08:52 PM
nh; wp. Expect to see a lot of other PPs, occasional 9s.
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01-11-2013 , 08:55 PM
I'd be snap calling here, sucks if he has a 9 but TT-QQ or something like K4dd more likely.
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01-11-2013 , 08:56 PM
standard imo. fould would be pretty weak.
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01-11-2013 , 08:57 PM
I would still go bigger even if you have gotten folds before. Eventually someone will get sick of you raising and I doubt their ranges for calling $20 vs $25 differ that drastically.

As played, you have an SPR just over 2 against a maniac so you can never fold here. He will have a 9 sometimes but there is plenty that you are ahead of. Overall, nh.
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01-11-2013 , 09:09 PM
Well, your read was that he would slow-play a 9, you have left than a pot-sized bet left so you're getting almost 2.2:1, he made a big check-raise with air previously so he is capable of big bluffs....

...and I still think this is a spew, because unless he's a massive drooler, I can not even make up a hand that he plays like this that doesn't have you crushed (either a 9 or pocket 4s). In his Q8 hand you were heads-up, here he's donking out into 3 people, getting called, then shoving anyway. What do you think he's doing this with, KK?

I mean, if he's spewy enough to do this, then I guess it's a snap call; the pot odds are certainly good enough. But would you have called if you had pocket 8s/10s/Jacks? Because here, they're essentially the same hand as Aces....

If he's that suicidal spewy, don't worry about folding the best hand to him on occasion. If he's happy enough to open up his stack with big bluffs, you'll get him in the end.
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01-11-2013 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon-Ash
Well, your read was that he would slow-play a 9, you have left than a pot-sized bet left so you're getting almost 2.2:1, he made a big check-raise with air previously so he is capable of big bluffs....

...and I still think this is a spew, because unless he's a massive drooler, I can not even make up a hand that he plays like this that doesn't have you crushed (either a 9 or pocket 4s). In his Q8 hand you were heads-up, here he's donking out into 3 people, getting called, then shoving anyway. What do you think he's doing this with, KK?

I mean, if he's spewy enough to do this, then I guess it's a snap call; the pot odds are certainly good enough. But would you have called if you had pocket 8s/10s/Jacks? Because here, they're essentially the same hand as Aces....

If he's that suicidal spewy, don't worry about folding the best hand to him on occasion. If he's happy enough to open up his stack with big bluffs, you'll get him in the end.
Not the same as aces, because with TT I don't beat any overpairs he decided to trap with.
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01-11-2013 , 10:40 PM
I'm not folding since ppl just love to slowplay.
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01-12-2013 , 02:40 AM
This is pretty common live. Mops flatting with 1010-QQ and ripping under card flops.

Pretty standard spot imo..call and scoop. If he has a 9..meh. scooping more often than not
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01-12-2013 , 03:29 AM
Stick to the larger PF raise. People will adjust (erroneously), and start calling with wider ranges.

Other than that, well played.
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01-12-2013 , 03:54 AM
I'm raising that flop bet 100% of the time. If he folds, you still collect a nice pot. If he calls or raises, you're probably in trouble, and can get away from it. Now here you are facing an overbet and have no idea really where you are.

As played, I'd fold. I've seen this movie too many times.
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01-12-2013 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls_horn
I'm raising that flop bet 100% of the time. If he folds, you still collect a nice pot. If he calls or raises, you're probably in trouble, and can get away from it. Now here you are facing an overbet and have no idea really where you are.

As played, I'd fold. I've seen this movie too many times.
Is it possible you've miscounted stack sizes? I have $208 back and he's just made the pot $134. No room to raise/fold.
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01-12-2013 , 11:56 AM
Why did u call and say show me your 9? If u think that's what he has why'd u call?
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01-12-2013 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wck117
Why did u call and say show me your 9? If u think that's what he has why'd u call?
Fatalism
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01-12-2013 , 12:55 PM
Nice hand.
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01-12-2013 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
Fatalism
lol - Im pretty sure when you got to that turn the money was going in. You're checking back flop here if he doesn't yea?

And yea cawl.

Results?
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01-12-2013 , 02:53 PM
AA != TT here but I'd call, hand is well played.
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01-12-2013 , 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
I'd be snap calling here, sucks if he has a 9 but TT-QQ or something like K4dd more likely.
Agreed.

I don't think I'd change my raise size to $20, I'd just keep hammering away until they either adjust (poorly) or limp/fold their money away. But even with the change the raise size is fine.

You're not deep enough to raise/fold the flop, or bet/fold the turn. With the stack sizes you're going to pay off a 9, but beat any other pair or bluff, so raising only folds out hands that you beat. If you were OOP we'd have a different discussion, but IP like this I'm perfectly happy with flatting and calling the turn or jamming the turn myself.

My experience is that a lot of players with this profile will bet and bet and bet until you play back at them and they fold. I think it's mostly ego driven, but they've stumbled upon the bet/fold line that makes a lot of money from loose passive live players.
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01-12-2013 , 06:53 PM
Yeah sorry you lost. This hand is not even worth posting. You have aces, an SPR of 2.4, and a double straddling drooler. Never fold, and it doesn't really matter if you flat flop or raise, just get it in by the turn.
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01-12-2013 , 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls_horn
I'm raising that flop bet 100% of the time. If he folds, you still collect a nice pot. If he calls or raises, you're probably in trouble, and can get away from it. Now here you are facing an overbet and have no idea really where you are.

As played, I'd fold. I've seen this movie too many times.
Why would you raise the flop if you think you're beat when called? Raising for information is a mega leak especially when AA is good here most of the time.
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01-12-2013 , 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861
I'm not folding since ppl just love to slowplay.
+1. Jamie's hand screams TT-KK. When he doesn't get raised on the flop he may assume no one has a 9.

He may be one of those maniacs who is putting you on snap folding your AK?

I still get it in on the flop by the way . Just not deep enough...
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01-12-2013 , 08:21 PM
Oh, and make it bigger PF as other stated.. You don't want action with AA.. you want GOOD action with AA. 25-35 PF. You would be suprised how many times someone will come along with AK/AQ/KK-88 and then feel the pressure to play for stacks if they catch any piece of it, or the flop an overpair.

Love setting myself up for hands that play themselves on the flop when I have aces through a BIG PF raise.
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01-13-2013 , 07:27 AM
Couldn't the villain be thinking:

"If I check-raise with my 9 here to hero's cbet, he would possibly fold his entire range then because I'd seem super-strong and if I check-call, I won't be getting enough value because he will most likely check back on the turn then... therefore the best play is to deceive him into thinking I'm not strong by donk-leading"

?
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01-13-2013 , 11:40 AM
Yes, he could. But given read of "He's not a good player at all... he overvalues his hands," this would be pretty high-level thinking for him.
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01-13-2013 , 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzypants
Couldn't the villain be thinking:

"If I check-raise with my 9 here to hero's cbet, he would possibly fold his entire range then because I'd seem super-strong and if I check-call, I won't be getting enough value because he will most likely check back on the turn then... therefore the best play is to deceive him into thinking I'm not strong by donk-leading"

?
e was much more likely to be thinking,
"oiergirg894jnerglk;jn duruuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrr a'kfgame'kgmae'lkmg"
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