equiv 1/2 game. playing super deep.. me and V1 are 400bb deep. V2 300bb deep.

My image is TAG. Neither villian will care what my image is.

V1 is a korean super aggro fish. $800 deep. He will overbet the pot anytime he hits a piece of it. Every ~15 hands he will CRAI for 350 bb when the size of the pot is 50bb. He has rarely been to showdown because he is always CRAI'ing for massive overbets and the table is folding TPTK to his crazy aggression. vpip is 80%, and calls 50% of raises. opens ~10%. Pretty calling with any suited+

V2 is a fish. Plays much less aggro, much more ABC. $600 deep. raises when he has the best hand. Rarely slowplays, rarely bets. Fishes with gutshots/ pair/straight draw hands/flush draws ect. Your average fish.

Hero is dealt KdKs in SB. 1 limper in MP, V2 limps in HJ, V1 limps on btn, hero raises to $16, V2 calls, V1 calls.

Flop: $52

2 4c 8c

Hero bets $40, V2 calls, V1 calls

Turn: $172

5d

Hero tank bets $140, V2 snap calls, V1 raises to $380, hero tanks..

To me, it looks like V1 had a gut-shot or a flush draw and just spiked a pair. You're ahead of V2.

I'm pretty weak in these 1-pair vs. 2 player hands and one of them just raised and wants to play for stacks, so I probably fold.

this is a pretty serious raise with a lead from SB and two snap calls from HJ. instinct tells me you are behind, or at best up against a hand (or two!) that have a ton of outs. I personally am uncomfortable stacking off in this situation with a dry over pair. I think, this deep, we should be looking to build big pots with nut hands post flop. not sure this is the right spot for it but whatever.

I'm folding because i dont feel good about jamming and calling is such an awful decision it should never be considered.

I puke and fold , feeling someone either hit their gutshot and we are drawing dead or that 54 got there. Given V1 image, I lean we are up against 2 pair at worst.

I also raise more pre as we have 3 limpers, the BB and will be OOP for the hand. I bring it to like $22'ish.

Omg folding here is the worst thing I have ever heard of in my life.

Guys, did you even read OPs description of the villians?

Preflop SPR is 15 vs V1, which is a very bad SPR, especially OOP, for big pairs and TPTK type hands exactly because of situations like this. The only way to avoid this problem on the turn is to check/call the turn for pot-control. Your hand is too good to fold at the turn, but not good enough to stack off or commit on the turn to stack off on the river, despite V2's history. Therefore, c/c is better than bet/get lost because you didn't have a plan already.

Unfortunately, given your read, you might very often be ahead of V2. But if you go all in, he just folds bad hands, and calls with better hands. And even if you call the turn, you are committed to to stacking off on a blank river given the stack sizes and V2's history. Meanwhile, the passive "fish" may very will be slow playing a big hand in addition to all the draws and 1-pairs that he's calling down with. You just don't know because your position is bad. Therefore, with fish in the pot, you cannot crai with the same kind of confidence as if it was just you vs V2, alone.

I think you got stuck oop with a bad SPR and your bet on the turn means you should fold when raised in this particular situation. I just don't think it is good play in a deep stack game to put 15x the size of the pot in post flop with just an overpair. Even if you are making a marginally +EV play vs the total ranges of V1 and V2, combined, there will be better spots to get your money in much better, later.

I still think c/c the turn despite the draws, with a plan to get to show down without getting all in is a better plan than leading the turn.

I meant, "...you cannot reraise all in..." not "crai..." Sorry for the mistype.

This is just bad.

An SPR of 15 is awesome against V1. It's MUCH better than an SPR of of 5 or whatever you might want vs an unknown. You have to adjust your SPR for your opponents. Against a super nit you can't get allin with just an overpair even with SPRs under five sometimes. Against a guy who is often spazzing with *ANY PAIR* (and perhaps worse) you are happy as can be to get all in with an overpair even with SPRs that are 20+.

You also assume that V2 is never paying off and maybe slowplaying but OPs read is that he continues with marginal holdings and rarely slowplays.

I hardly ever play this deep, but FWIW this pot has gotten way too big for a 1 pair hand. I'm checking/eval the turn for pot control.

Thats alot of aggression to be shown, I wouldn't think an over pair is good here but its definitely possible, but I don't wanna lose 800 to some fish who just turned his two pair with 54. I think I look for a better spot and take down a bigger pot when I have daaa nutz

A little big on the turn IMO $110/fold is better. IMO this is a fairly easy lay-down.

easy fold imo

and all the talk about SPR 15 need SPR 5 bla bla is silly.

+1 million lol

it would definitely suck if either of villains hit a set, but honestly i put them both on decently high pockets / suited connectors. i bet 1 or both have like 1010 jj qq hands or aks w/ flush draws something like that . live play people call anything. on the internet i would fold but i think live your probably ahead against most of the lags ive seen that match this description

If V1 raised all in, I would call, while crying. V2's snap call ott puts him on a draw or overpair. With the amount of overbetting and raising V1 has been doing, I think I have to go with KK there.

But, he has been overbetting and crai'ing a ton and now when going all in would be a normal raise, he raises $240 into a $592 pot, leaving himself $364. What does that mean? I think the more obvious possible reason for this underbet is that he has everyone crushed (1) and he wants calls. Also possible, he is behind (2) with either a draw or pure bluff and is trying to represent reason 1. Lastly, he has air (3) and is betting small to entice a call from a flush draw, but saving enough to bluff the river when the flush draw misses. Since this is $1/$2, I am tempted to discount reasons 2 and 3 and find a fold.

hahahah reasons two and three are probably correct BECAUSE this is live. i would be alot more likely to fold if this was internet hahah

Results: I called turn and c/c'ed a blank river. He had A2, semi-bluff. Other villain had 33.

Not sure if it was the correct play though. pretty close imo

yaaaaaaa! you won!!! using my play. and my play was totally correct even if ranges are wrong hahahah people in live games bet w/ anything

easy fold obv, I wouldn't be happy about it but this sort of rubbish when playing with crazy fish, take a few hands off to collect yourself though

ah, you won

lol, even though you won this, I still h8 these crazy episodes but, did have any reads that led you to not thinking they had something? or did you just not believe them