Hey guys, this is a hand that a friend and I had different opinions about. Im not very happy with how I played it, so Id love to poll everyone here.

H: mid 20s female, new to area and game so an unknown to everyone and everyone unknowns to me. Just sat down for a few orbits only and havent seen show-downs with the V in this hand. ($200)

V: late 20s/early 30s male, pretty sure he squeezed a hand I raised early to 8, got 4 callers and he raised to 45 in BB. It was just such a good squeeze spot that it was possible he wasnt doing it with a premium hand. 3bet a bunch of other times too but seems like a player who gets into too many pots by calling/raising pf and tries to pull moves. (Of course that's all speculations at this point.) ($350)

Table: in general no good/tricky/dangerous players maybe except one guy who's not in the hand.

Hand:
One straight forward older guy opens to 7 MP, V calls in cut off, i have AcQc in the sb. Normally i think about 3bet here on a loose weak table, but against relative unknowns and oop too I just call.

Flop: Ad6s7s ($21)
I lead out for 12, thinking that the initial raiser is probably not going to lead out with pairs between 66 and KK, probably doesnt have AK but might get some value from weaker aces, middle pairs, and draws.

Raiser folds, V min-raises to 24.

1) Re-raise, 2) fold or 3) call?

Post-hand discussions: My friend said, since its against an unknown, and you are oop with just one pair, take a check-call line unless the board gets dangerous.

I was leaning more towards a reraise line. The min raise seemed to me like a scary-raise-and-see-where-i-am with aj/at type of hand. It doesnt feel like two pair plus, and i dont think he would play a draw this way. But since it's an unknown, i want to reraise (so to 65?) with enough FE that if he were to 4-bet all in there I can fold with $130ish behind because im beat by a pair+ made hand and dont have blockers/redraws to a big combo draw, two types of hands that I am not a favourite to. I would also get some value out of an ace that cant fold, or a naked flush draw. The downside is that im setting up for a shove ott.

What do you guys think?

Will post results after a few responses. Thanks.

Calling pre is OK, but 3-betting for value is probably better.

The flop should be a check/call (don't lead). As played, just call the raise.

3-bet/folding on the flop is quite bad. You're talking about raising for information.

Also, fold equity doesn't mean what you think it means. Fold equity is something you want to wield in certain situations - it's not something you want to give your opponents. Either way, fold equity has nothing to do with this situation.

My real concern is the 1/2 pot donk bet. It just looks so weak, and puts us into really difficult spots. Honestly, other than check/folding, this is probably the worst action you could have taken.

I think your instinct to donk bet is good, because we're at a weak-passive table, and people will check back a lot of hands, especially on this board.

But what are we accomplishing by betting 1/2 pot? This board is really wet, and all sorts of draws are getting the right price to call our little bet.

Just lead out for $20. We will still get called by all aces, all OESD, all flush draws, etc.

As played, just call the raise OTF.

Can I use it in a sense where Im NOT committing myself to calling it off because the SPR has gotten so small?

Also i didnt see it as raising for information. My intention was raising to get value and in the small unlikely chance that Im beat, i can fold. Kind of adopting the bet-raise/fold otr move. Not the place?

Yeah i agree, I realized after 12 is waaaay too little. For some reason i just looked at the pot and i thought i saw 3 reds and 2 whites, which makes no sense afterwards and i shouldve added up the calls instead.

Do you think 20 is too much to get called by a middle pair? Which is more likely than an ace or a flush draw, right? Would something like 15-16 be better?

I wouldn't play this hand to get called by middle pair.

This is a pretty wet board. Any flush draw, any OESD, and any Ax is calling the $20.

We're never winning a big pot versus middle pair, so there's no reason to worry about getting called by the bottom of our opponents' ranges.

You must 3bet this pre. Only time I complete/call is when there are like 4500 callers and we are all pretty deep. In this spot it should be auto 3bet.

AP... What's your stack size here? My thinking is V can do this with combo draws just as much as he could do with the nuts, and if you 3bet here he is raising/shoving both of those, which means if you 3bet here I don't think you can do it as a bluff. You need to be ready to commit. So depending on your stack size I think we can go a few routes.

It does if V has AK or AQ.

Ack sorry, my stack is 200. (One of those things where i made a note to remember to mention.... and then forget)

If you think V has AJ/AT in his range you only raise if you know he will get sticky with those hands. TBH though, if he has either one of those I think raising lets him off the hook. A female playing from the SB taking a donk/3b line screams strength. The problem is calling sucks because there are so many turn cards that kill action. Read my other post, stack size is super important here.

The fold equity thing... What do you think FE means? Not needling here.

Some of your thinking seems to be backwards. You put him on a see where I am at hand that will call your 3bet, but are scared to get the money in. Why would you be scared to get the money in with the best hand? How did you come up with his range and why are you taking a passive line against it?

I added it to your OP.

Disclaimer: I stickied this because I believe that OP has much to learn about this hand, and quite possibly poker, and I think there are some forum members here that could help. It's not a knock on OP at all. I just see some mistakes in the thought process and fixing these mistakes could impact OP's game in a major way. I believe this thread is ultimately what this forum is about, people who want to get better at poker helping each other out. I also think this is a pretty common trouble spot.

With that said, if you want to epeen or troll the thread please take it elsewhere. Try to respond in detail and be as helpful as possible.

^ thank you, really appreciate it. It was a hand that I really felt horrible about after, like you said I felt there were fundamental bits missing from my poker reasoning.. i really just learned the game on the felt and 2+2 was the first resource i turned to after playing in my spare time for a few years.

So yeah, flame away if you guys want, as long as it comes with a reason and you are willing to answer any dumb/obvious follow up questions that i might have..

$90/call and/or shove most turns.

Also I don't think pre or post are bad lines although I likely take different ones. Would need more info on OMC's range. Def 3! if its AQo. This is a versatile hand in a versatile spot.

Some of your thinking is off here though tbh

I dont like the donk out line in those kind of spots. It puts you in weird difficult spots, where you often have no idea where your at when you getting raised, like you did this time.

Does villain has a strong draw? Does villain has you crushed with like a set? Does he have aces up? My point is you just have to guess really, and navigating in thick fog here.

Yes, its possible to sort this things out if you have strong reads on villain tendencies and proof in terms of showdown hands how he plays- but its certainly difficult to define the hand with your donklead here. Base your actions of faulty reads and tendencies can cost you your stack in those kind of spots in worst case scenarios.

Depending on the type of villain i also prefer a 3 bet preflop here to take the lead when playing OOP, and i believe it make this hand much easier to play and easier to avoid costly mistakes postflop.

Grunching ...

As played, I'd fold. We called a raise pre, lead into 2 opponents on an A-high flop and are min-raised. Up until this point, your image seems quiet and inactive, thus your perceived range is very strong (AK/76/77/66/98s).

V can have a draw but we are oop so calling the flop to c/f the turn is not solid. If we raise, V will call with a strong equity hand at a minimum and fold hands like AJ/AT (I believe).

Try hand-ranging the raiser. Usually $7 raises are fairly wide, stuff like KTs which you are obviously doing well against, so I'd 3-bet for value. This is table-dep't of course, and some older players actually show-up with QQ here.

FE - AK nor 76 are folding, so you have zero FE.

Villain - he seems to be aggressive at a minimum, and actually may have some skills since most LLSNLs don't squeeze or 3-bet pre. He may be calling to see flops, hoping to out play the oppostion. Try and play against him ip.

Grunch.
I like a 3bet pre. Unknown's call too much, right? But then again, your image (female) is nitty, I think, so I could see an argument that this just folds out everything worse. Plus this hand plays fine deep, against two V's, so a call is reasonable, but I still like 3bet pre for value. Plus, you're fine playing against hands like pairs JJ-. The hands you want to play against are weaker aces. 3bet gives you a lower SPR, which you want with this hand. I make it 20.

As played, otf, I prefer a check raise. V descriptions is aggressive, even if you're unsure of how aggressive. Go with what info you do have. So let him hang himself. You could fold to a flop 3bet, but not sure. Prolly the right move, checkraise/fold with TP2K, even though the raise will be close to committing you.

As played after the min raise, you have to figure out if this is a strong min raise (suck bet begging you not to fold), or the let's raise and see if we can get a cheap fold type of bet. What was the sizing on the three bets you've seen from this player? Were they min raises, or close to that? Assuming this is a weak bet, next question is whether draws or weak paired hands (including weaker aces than yours) are more likely. If draws raise now, while you're ahead. If he's doing this with a weak paired hand more likely, then call and check/call all the way most likely. I'm thinking this type of player calling a MP raise in the CO has more draws than weak pairs. So raise. How much? Enough to make calling a mistake. There is 57 in the pot, plus your 12 to call is 69. You'll have 169 back. V can win 69+169=239 (including implied odds money). If you bet more than 1/3 of 239 = 80, he is getting bad odds even assuming you pay off when he hits. But you can play better than that. Odds considering just one more street (the turn), assuming he is on a flush draw, for example, you then just have to give him worse than 5.5 to 1. So you need to bet at least 69/(5.5+1) = 10. You should bet between 10 and 80 (I know, super broad range). I would make it 55 more, putting in 67 on top of your original bet of 12, making it 79 total

I need to get better/faster at this stuff.

Then, when you raise to 79, it will be very difficult to fold, but probably the right thing to do. Most people don't 4bet with a draw. That makes me think we should bet less for our 3bet. Not sure if you get the same result with say, just 40 more, making it 64 total. Feels too small to me. When he does have a draw, you don't really know which draw he has, which is a reason to bet more not, not less.

Exactly this. I believe this hand shows how much it sucks to play out of position in general and with a somewhat tricky hand like AQ in particular.

Against a good LAG or skilled opponent i might even fold AQ off from the SB, or i 3 bet it to take the lead. Calling is mye third option against solid competition.

I play alot of PLO also, and there you learn how important position really is in poker. That opened up my eyes for sure, because in Omaha you get totally owned by good opponents OOP.

No.

Do not fold AQss.

Also, this is $1/2. There are no skilled opponents.

Villain was not the pfr.

"Avoiding him" when he flats a $7 open in the CO with AQs is burning a significant amount of money.

Flop is also probably losing money if you are thinking about folding at any point in the hand.

Try to quote my whole statement,instead of one piece that fits into your arguments: i would rather fold than call, and much prefer a 3 bet if i am going to play the hand. I also said IF the opponent is skilled. And yes, for sure there is skilled 1/2 players, at least at the games i play in.

Grunch:

I prefer a 3-bet pre, as AQ OOP multi-way is going to be a bitch to play unless wee hit huge or whiff completely.

I like a flop lead but bet is too small on a suited connected board.

AP, V likely puts you on a draw trying to set a price or a week ace betting to see where it's at. His min-raise is likely an ace, and prob not AK given that he's 3-bet happy. I c/c down most boards for pot control and to keep his week aces in. B/3-bet is really overplaying our hand and gets out most of the range we get value from, imo.

OK. Off to read the other responses

You know, I did not catch this when I first read it. My opinion now on what to do is a ton different than my first read when I thought V was prF raiser.

I believe b/3bet is also a bit too strong, but given texture and hero skill level it may be the correct thing to do. No?

3b pre all day.

OP, what size though & why?