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1/2 NL turned boat vs raise 1/2 NL turned boat vs raise

06-25-2015 , 11:27 AM
1/2NL at local casino. Have been playing for ~4 hrs and have a pretty tight image at the table. Villain 1 is a decent player, tight, nothing out of line, and have been playing for >12 hrs at the table. Villain 2 just sat down for half an hour, playing very loose and aggressive and have been hitting a bunch of hands. The hand in question:

Effective stacks Hero (~300), Villain 1 (~350), Villain 2 (~750).

Preflop
Villain 2 limp UTG, Villain 1 limp LP, Hero limp with 22, SB complete and BB check (Pot: 10)
Flop AcAhJc
All checked
Turn
2S
Checked to me and I bet 10. Villain 2 reraise to 50. Villain 1 reraise to 100.
Villain 1 has not gotten out of line since I sat down and always raises with the goods. Hero??
1/2 NL turned boat vs raise Quote
06-25-2015 , 11:28 AM
Snap fold and tell nobody.

Just no way both of them are doing this with a bare Ax.
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06-25-2015 , 12:12 PM
This is one instance where I might fold a boat. NEVER tell anyone!
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06-25-2015 , 01:09 PM
Villain 2 is on a wide range here including flush draws and total air. Without more of a read than "decent player, tight, nothing out of line" Villain 1's range includes any Ax and trying to isolate V2 when hero might have Ax better kicker. Sure JJ and AJ are possible, but you are way ahead often in typical 1/2 game. Also, your boat is well hidden, so players w/Ax are not expecting you to have it.
I'd flat the 100, hoping V2 overcalls & hits a flush. Get it all in on the river for value.
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06-25-2015 , 01:22 PM
Sucks, but I'd probably fold.
Even if you do call, your going to have to dodge a lot of river cards.
1/2 NL turned boat vs raise Quote
06-25-2015 , 05:28 PM
Yeah, I wanted to argue for call just to go against the grain; but really everything says fold.

1st its a limp pot, don't go broke in a limp pot.

2nd to play you have to raise which will fold out worse and insta ship better.

Close your eyes and lay it down losing only $12 on a boat, it's a bad spot.
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06-25-2015 , 09:01 PM
Thanks for all the comments guys. I'm surprised the majority of you would fold in that spot. After thinking for quite a while, I ultimately folded as well. Villain 2 called the 50 and the river is an offsuit K (board reads AAJ2K). Villain 2 bet 100 and Villain 1 called. Villain 2 has KK for a rivered boat and Villain 1 has AT for trips.

Looking back at the hand, I felt that I played the hand poorly (should have shoved the turn but maybe I'm just looking at the result). Like some of you said, I have only invested $12 in the pot so that is probably why I folded at the end. I agree with one of the posters above that Villain 1 could easily have AX and is raising to iso Villain 2 given Villain 2's reckless play.
1/2 NL turned boat vs raise Quote
06-25-2015 , 09:13 PM
I probably ship. Only thing that beats us is JJ, AJ, A2...only likely hand is A2 and has 6 combos. Very likely they both have an Ace and will call.
1/2 NL turned boat vs raise Quote
06-25-2015 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSlick2006
I probably ship. Only thing that beats us is JJ, AJ, A2...only likely hand is A2 and has 6 combos. Very likely they both have an Ace and will call.
I thought about this hand afterwards and I totally agree with you. If Villain 1 has a made hand (JJ, A2, AJ), I don't see him raising the turn when in position vs Villain 2 with me acting behind. I really should have shipped it, which will most likely Villain 2 to fold and Villain 1 to call.
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06-26-2015 , 12:53 AM
Why would you ship? To fold out worse?

Turn is a flat and get it in on the river
1/2 NL turned boat vs raise Quote
06-26-2015 , 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmVan
Thanks for all the comments guys. I'm surprised the majority of you would fold in that spot. After thinking for quite a while, I ultimately folded as well. Villain 2 called the 50 and the river is an offsuit K (board reads AAJ2K). Villain 2 bet 100 and Villain 1 called. Villain 2 has KK for a rivered boat and Villain 1 has AT for trips.

Looking back at the hand, I felt that I played the hand poorly (should have shoved the turn but maybe I'm just looking at the result). Like some of you said, I have only invested $12 in the pot so that is probably why I folded at the end. I agree with one of the posters above that Villain 1 could easily have AX and is raising to iso Vgillain 2 given Villain 2's reckless play.

Ahhh so Vil 2 was semi bluffing the KkK full draw. It all makes sense now.

In all seriousness though, I really wish I could get away w playing that bad. The above comment was only out of jealousy for Vil2.
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06-26-2015 , 01:13 AM
folding is simply suicide; torture style
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06-26-2015 , 01:23 AM
"Don't go broke in a limped pot" is mainly for random ATC nut hands I think. AA, JJ, and to a lesser extent AJ don't really fall into this category (nor does KK, but oh well).

TAGs and LAGs are both raising AA/JJ, and the LAG probably AJ as well. The 3 hands that beat us OTT don't particularly play like that from either a LAG or a TAG, so I feel like we are holding the best hand OTT almost 100% of the time.

With that being said, neither TAGs nor LAGs would really limp PF with AT/KK, respectively, so maybe your reads are off?
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06-26-2015 , 01:54 AM
this is physically painful. if you ever have any questions please pm me asap. im a noob myself
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06-26-2015 , 06:49 AM
It's fairly unusual for you to be good here OTT given the action IMO. Pretty easy fold, take a mental note.
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06-26-2015 , 03:22 PM
I'm shoving turn ainec. 1/2 players who hit an ace on this board aren't folding after raising. Also they aren't playing JJ or AJ with the limps around so I don't get people who are saying fold turn.
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06-26-2015 , 03:59 PM
Funny how after the results are posted people start advocating calls and shoves on the turn.

Then again, folding a full house on this board in a limped pot is just so unbelievably terrible that I was absolutely shocked when I was reading that people are calling this a bad spot to continue and that folding is correct.

Seriously, what 1-2 games are you guys playing in? Nobody ever folds trip aces in these spots. Unless your "reads" section includes the following "saw villain lay down monster hands to aggression" this is a snap get it in and expect to get called by TONS of worse hands. Can they have AJ or 22? Sure. Can they have AA, JJ? Hardly ever. Will the "tight" player call with most aces like AQ, A10, A9, and A8? Many "tight" players will every time. The "loose" player calls with any ace.

I hate folding, but I really don't like calling, as the hands that we are ahead of are essentially drawing hands at this point, and not charging them to boat up would be incorrect. As I mentioned, sure you are going to get called by A2 or AJ sometimes but we are getting tons of value against the many hands we beat that 1-2 NL players are notorious for not being able to fold. Also, the loose player could have a draw, but given the action it doesn't seem likely, so we are not really gaining much by flatting and "letting him catch up."

Last edited by THOFF; 06-26-2015 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Typo
1/2 NL turned boat vs raise Quote
06-26-2015 , 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmVan
1/2NL at local casino. Have been playing for ~4 hrs and have a pretty tight image at the table. Villain 1 is a decent player, tight, nothing out of line, and have been playing for >12 hrs at the table. Villain 2 just sat down for half an hour, playing very loose and aggressive and have been hitting a bunch of hands. The hand in question:

Effective stacks Hero (~300), Villain 1 (~350), Villain 2 (~750).

Preflop
Villain 2 limp UTG, Villain 1 limp LP, Hero limp with 22, SB complete and BB check (Pot: 10)
Flop AcAhJc
All checked
Turn
2S
Checked to me and I bet 10. Villain 2 reraise to 50. Villain 1 reraise to 100.
Villain 1 has not gotten out of line since I sat down and always raises with the goods. Hero??
Villian 1 should never have AA,JJ. I would expect him to raise pf with AK, AQ, AJ. Only 2 combinations of A2 left. I don´t think we can fold unless we know V1 wouldn´t overplay trips here. If we expect villians to call with just an ace here then GII. If not, smooth call and donk the river?

If you have been playing with Villian 1 for 4 hours you should have specific reads on him beyond ''decent, not out of line''. Step it up.
1/2 NL turned boat vs raise Quote
06-26-2015 , 10:31 PM
Please do not fold.
You get beaten by two combinations of hands

EDIT: Just saw the results. I don't see in anyway how this is a EASY FOLD. I mean wtf, this is 1/2 any random ace does this action on the turn. Given preflop, how unlikely they can they have AJ, AA or JJ. Theres literally 2 combinations of hands (2 combos of A2o) that beat you. You should be more worried about having 77 on 9 7 2 board because there are 3 combinations of 99 that beat you whereas in this situation there are only 2 combinations.

Last edited by MangoBall; 06-26-2015 at 10:37 PM.
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06-30-2015 , 09:14 AM
Don't fold here. Couldn't. Such situations are great for broking. Typical limping range I see so many times are Ax crap hands. Calling turn or shoving doesn't make much difference at the opponents I play at 1/2(my experieince)
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