The argument for calling preflop is that we're only risking a lol 2.5% of our stack and will be getting 40+:1 IO in an SPR 13 pot (where we could play for stacks versus apply extreme pressure postflop) all in position.

So I can't hate on it. But I'm still folding cuz I'm a nit, although experts could probably get away with doing whatever they wanted.

GcluelessfoldingnitnoobG

Oh come on. Ill admit that I lean fold myself, but QJo when we are seen as tight and on the button is not a major deviation.

About 8 months ago I made the transition to live poker. I've played full time online for the last 5ish years before that. I will say I have close to zero time at these stakes but it can't be that different than 2/5 and 5T I wouldn't think. People still want to get paid when they get big hands

But this is a fair point

I'm beginning to believe I mischaracterized the Villain as a TAG, however modified in my description. In fact, I'm beginning to question if there is a single true TAG in my area. If Villain is a LAG, then he's a tighter than normal LAG preflop. Postflop, he's TAG 50%, LAG 30% and weak-tight 20%. That said, he is better than 3/4 of the field.

So, how the hell do you describe someone like this in shorthand.

I was under the impression that the only distinction between LAG and TAG had to do with how many hands were in their preflop ranges. As for postflop play, there should be no distinction between the playing styles. It’s just that a LAG plays more hands so they necessarily will take different postflop lines because certain boards will be better for a LAG range than a TAG range.

For example, a LAG might be something like 40/30 preflop stats, and a TAG would be more like 20/14.

As for postflop play, both a LAG and TAG will take aggressive lines in different spots, raising and betting when appropriate. That’s the meaning of the G in LAG/TAG.

So I don’t understand how a player can be LAG preflop and TAG postflop. There’s no meaning to this AFAIK.

There isn't a different equilibrium for those with a tight image

It's not far off from 2/5, but people are major major stations and don't like folding those big pairs. I repeat though that there's a lot of slow playing of nutted hands.

Slowplaying trips is basically the standard fish line. Why? No clue. But I can't keep track of how many times I see trips in a showdown where the only action post was a single bet and a call on the river. Or how many times I've seen river raises on paired boards in checked-down pots that don't make any sense.

Maybe this doesn't apply to villain but in general trips is probably discounted more by a flop/turn bet than it is by a check .

Folding garbage RIO hands preflop is part of what makes us experts. Being an expert doesn't just mean we can start playing garbage in position planning to run circles around our opponents postflop. And if you're just trying to make a big hand and get paid you're doing exactly what the fish do and you're going to lose like they do. Implied odds isn't some magical thing that can make hands like this profitable when you pass a certain SPR threshold. It's rare to make a big hand and our opponents aren't just handing out their stacks for us when we do. 40:1 isn't doing you any good when your opponent has flushes, straights and sets half of the time you GII with two pairs.

Yeah, over calling QJo vs. a 5x UTG open and a call is a major deviation. QJo is a pure fold BU vs. a CO min-raise at equilibrium. Vs. a reasonable UTG range it's very often dominated and if you're lucky enough to make top pair post you have a bluffcatcher when more than one bet goes in. Even when you make 2P or trips you're going to end up coolered a decent amount. The only thing it really has going for it is its ability to make nut straights.

Totally agree with everything except aggressive starting the the letter g 🙃

For those advocating a preflop call.

Yes, being in position is good. I think we can all agree this is an almost always fold OOP.

however, when playing deep, your hand selection should completely change. QJo is one of the worst hands to play deep stacked and calling a raise. You’re never comfortable with most boards due to kicker issues vs. the majority of his range. You’ll have a hard time realizing max profit with middling hands because you’ll often be value towning yourself against a probably cautious opponent. If I’m flatting and looking to play poker in this situation, I’m looking for a hand that can make the nuts a few different ways, and also isn’t likely to have a lot of negative overlap with my opponents range. You want clean outs. QJo rarely has clean outs vs an UTG raise. This is an RIO hand.

I agree with most here saying fold pre, raise river to about $135.

What about on the turn though?? Lets say you decide to bet the turn when checked to...somewhere around $45.

Pot is $154 after the Turn

River 9x

What's your betsize on the river if he checks to you again, and what do you do if you get raised 3-3.5x?