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1/2 NL Nut flush draw+gutter facing heat 1/2 NL Nut flush draw+gutter facing heat

07-17-2011 , 04:46 PM
Table was pretty pretty loose passive with the exception of me and my friend who is the villain in this hand. He's a very good TAG, I'm a bit less aggressive than him, he views me as tighter than I really am.

Effective stacks are 285, about 6 limpers and my friend also limps from the button, I complete from the sb with A4. BB checks.

Flop is Q-5-2x.

First question, check/raise? check/call? Lead? I bet 10 into the 14 dollar pot to build it up, table was pretty loose so I wanted to build the pot. 4 callers when villain pops it to 45. Would you call here? Does anyone fold? If we were in position do we just flat? His range is probably limited to 2 pairs/sets or a big draw, If i 3bet he will probably fold his draws and bad 2 pairs (2-5/q-2). He obviously won't ever fold any sets.

I ended up making it 125 to go. Too big? I didn't want to play this OOP as he is always imo firing on the turn, if I had to get it all in I obviously wanted to do it with both cards to come. He went all in and I called off the rest of my 160 as the pot was now about 450 dollars, making it correct I think even if he turned out to have a set.

Is this entirely standard? Thanks for the input
1/2 NL Nut flush draw+gutter facing heat Quote
07-17-2011 , 05:02 PM
Grunch

I would lead out as well for deception as well as value. We have 12 outs to the nuts which is over 1/2 the deck and we plan on seeing the river. Our flop bet may clean up some possible Ace outs as well, but obviously we're looking to take down the hand with the nuts.
Once villain raises the the flop I think we're up against another FD, but more likely a set with all of the preflop limpers. Would your friend raise TPMK with this action, especially vs yo uwhom he thinks is a rock?
I raise it to $100 because if he or anyone calls, we're shoving the turn regardless and too big a flop raise just says, NFD, let's gamble (although that may be pretty obvious regardless of the bet sizing).
After that, we're calling any shove and shoving any turn IMO.
1/2 NL Nut flush draw+gutter facing heat Quote
07-17-2011 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-rod for MVP
Table was pretty pretty loose passive with the exception of me and my friend who is the villain in this hand. He's a very good TAG, I'm a bit less aggressive than him, he views me as tighter than I really am.

Effective stacks are 285, about 6 limpers and my friend also limps from the button, I complete from the sb with A4. BB checks.

Flop is Q-5-2x.

First question, check/raise? check/call? Lead? I bet 10 into the 14 dollar pot to build it up, table was pretty loose so I wanted to build the pot. 4 callers when villain pops it to 45. Would you call here? Does anyone fold? If we were in position do we just flat? His range is probably limited to 2 pairs/sets or a big draw, If i 3bet he will probably fold his draws and bad 2 pairs (2-5/q-2). He obviously won't ever fold any sets.

I ended up making it 125 to go. Too big? I didn't want to play this OOP as he is always imo firing on the turn, if I had to get it all in I obviously wanted to do it with both cards to come. He went all in and I called off the rest of my 160 as the pot was now about 450 dollars, making it correct I think even if he turned out to have a set.

Is this entirely standard? Thanks for the input
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-rod for MVP
Table was pretty pretty loose passive with the exception of me and my friend who is the villain in this hand. He's a very good TAG, I'm a bit less aggressive than him, he views me as tighter than I really am.

Effective stacks are 285, about 6 limpers and my friend also limps from the button, I complete from the sb with A4. BB checks.

Flop is Q-5-2x.

First question, check/raise? check/call? Lead? I bet 10 into the 14 dollar pot to build it up, table was pretty loose so I wanted to build the pot. 4 callers when villain pops it to 45. Would you call here? Does anyone fold? If we were in position do we just flat? His range is probably limited to 2 pairs/sets or a big draw, If i 3bet he will probably fold his draws and bad 2 pairs (2-5/q-2). He obviously won't ever fold any sets.

I ended up making it 125 to go. Too big? I didn't want to play this OOP as he is always imo firing on the turn, if I had to get it all in I obviously wanted to do it with both cards to come. He went all in and I called off the rest of my 160 as the pot was now about 450 dollars, making it correct I think even if he turned out to have a set.

Is this entirely standard? Thanks for the input

pretty standard IMO. calling the flop raise here OOP would be really bad. If we brick off we probably check-fold which would be incredibly weak. Alternatively it could make our hand and kill our action. We want to see both cards here (if it comes to that). I dont have a problem getting 140 BB here when the worst we can possibly be is a 2:1 dog with the money in the middle
1/2 NL Nut flush draw+gutter facing heat Quote
07-17-2011 , 05:21 PM
I like the smallish 3 bet for 2 reasons. First, if we barely min 3 bet it keeps weaker draws in which we dominate, it may even induce a weaker fd to shove which I'm ok with. Second it sets up a solid stack to pot ratio to shove the turn regardless of what hits. He may spazz and call a min 3 bet on the flop with a Q then fold the turn when we shove which is also ok. 3 betting>calling oop/folding turn when we brick/having it go cc on turn when we hit> folding
1/2 NL Nut flush draw+gutter facing heat Quote
07-17-2011 , 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhani
Grunch

I would lead out as well for deception as well as value. We have 12 outs to the nuts which is over 1/2 the deck and we plan on seeing the river. Our flop bet may clean up some possible Ace outs as well, but obviously we're looking to take down the hand with the nuts.
Once villain raises the the flop I think we're up against another FD, but more likely a set with all of the preflop limpers. Would your friend raise TPMK with this action, especially vs yo uwhom he thinks is a rock?
I raise it to $100 because if he or anyone calls, we're shoving the turn regardless and too big a flop raise just says, NFD, let's gamble (although that may be pretty obvious regardless of the bet sizing).
After that, we're calling any shove and shoving any turn IMO.
He might raise top pair but I highly doubt it, given his limp on the button he would have raised with any decent queen. I think his range is heavily weighted towards 2 pairs and sets given the preflop action and the fact that he will view me as tight and there were several other callers, I don't think he's raising without the nut flush draw. I think my 3bet was a little too big, I think 100 dollars would have set up a good turn shove if necessary.
1/2 NL Nut flush draw+gutter facing heat Quote
07-17-2011 , 06:56 PM
I don't like the 3b since you put him on something so strong then why bother setting yourself up to get shoved at when you're behind and he's never folding? His 45 is so small that it's super good to just peel and re-evaluate on the turn. You can bluff like all the time on a 6, and an A might slow down the action from him if he holds 2pairs.
1/2 NL Nut flush draw+gutter facing heat Quote
07-18-2011 , 04:03 PM
With all these limpers, I also complete from the SB.

I probably just check/see the flop and see what happens. It is unlikely to get checked around with this many players, so we're not going to have to worry about making sure a pot gets built.

I have no idea what is wrong with just calling the flop raise. Thanks to the slightly underbet raise by the villain (betting $45 into an already $65 pot), we are getting terrific odds of of almost 3:1. If villain is TAG, he ain't showing up with two pair here ever, and it's also unlikely he's doing this with a simple pair with this much flop action. If he's got a set, the last thing we want to do is get the money in now as we're a big dog. I just smooth call, hope the world pads the pot behind me (most of whom are putting in their money really bad here) and see what develops on the turn with my 12 outer.
1/2 NL Nut flush draw+gutter facing heat Quote
07-18-2011 , 04:38 PM
I dont have any problem with how you played this. i think the worst option though would be to just flat your friends raise since if you hit the diamond on the turn it likely slows the action. if he has a set we still have enough clean outs with the straight draw added to not be too upset.
1/2 NL Nut flush draw+gutter facing heat Quote
07-18-2011 , 05:01 PM
You're friend did a terrible under-raise. He made it 35 more into a pot of 65.

With 240 left behind its fine to peel here and be prepared to lead for 60 into 135 to setup the river shove if we bink on the turn. Even if a diamond comes, there is a good chance we'll get paid something because villain obviously has a big hand. If we miss then there is no shame in folding to his turn barrel.

I don't really want to get it in for 140bb 6-way in a limped pot. I doubt we have much fold equity - our lead into 6 players looks uber strong which makes villains raise stronger.
1/2 NL Nut flush draw+gutter facing heat Quote

      
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