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1/2 NL misadventure in set-mining 1/2 NL misadventure in set-mining

07-25-2011 , 02:33 PM
Thanks again. I acknowledge that poke4fun is right and I am trying too hard to 'solve' this particular hand based on the results:

Spoiler:
When the villain shoved I put him on AK for two pair with best kicker.

Hero snap calls. Villain shows 7 5 and scoops pot.

Where I'm clogging myself up is I'm not sure greater turn aggression would have blown this particular villain off two pair. But that's dumb because I want two pair to call, right? Or am I still lost?

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07-25-2011 , 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaselblob
Where I'm clogging myself up is I'm not sure greater turn aggression would have blown this particular villain off two pair. But that's dumb because I want two pair to call, right? Or am I still lost?
On the turn, villain was on a two-outer to win the pot, which means he'll suck out on us only ~5% of the time, so we're a huge favourite. We're not betting the turn to blow him out of the pot, we're hoping he calls cuz he's a massive underdog and this is printing money. I'd recommend betting more on the turn, not for him to be more likely to fold (again, we don't want that), but to set up a river situation where stack / pot sizes will be such that it will be a lot more easier for him to call a shove.
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07-25-2011 , 02:47 PM
It is highly highly unlikely that greater turn aggression blows this player off of two pair. Players at this level just don't fold 2pair hands unless there's a 4-flush or 4-straight on the board, and even then, not always. Obviously, yes, we want a hand that is usually going to think that it's best and is drawing to 2 outs to call us. We want to bet so as to maximize the amount of Other People's Money that gets into the pot by showdown.

One of the most important, and least intuitive, concepts of poker is avoiding results-oriented thinking. Just because you got crushed in this one particular hand (congrats on popping what sounds like your cash-game-stack cherry - wait til you hit your four-digit cherry, it's a fun one) doesn't mean you should have been able to find a spot to fold. The game just doesn't work like that.
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07-25-2011 , 02:58 PM
So… I took a little too long to get to almost the right place for the wrong reasons, both in this hand and ITT?
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07-25-2011 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaselblob
So… I took a little too long to get to almost the right place for the wrong reasons, both in this hand and ITT?
Basically, yeah . You were supposed to lose your ass this hand, and should be willing to do so again in a heartbeat.
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07-25-2011 , 03:12 PM
OP,

- Pay attention to the 7 (now 8) people in this thread who point out your turn bet is too small.

- Preflop action pretty much eliminates KK from V's range. Ask yourself - what would flat the preflop raise in MP, then flat you on that flop, and the turn, on this Sahara of a board?
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07-25-2011 , 04:45 PM
Kept bet fairly small in case I got raised by a higher set, ..........................are you ****ing serious????????????????? there is your first problem
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07-25-2011 , 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharreal_87
are you ****ing serious?
I just looked up the probability of flopping set-over-set.

Feel free to point and laugh, I deserve it for that one.
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07-25-2011 , 05:58 PM
villain has 4 outs on the turn, not two.

5 5 7 7

but your point is still valid.
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07-25-2011 , 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobie Newbertson
villain has 4 outs on the turn, not two.

5 5 7 7

but your point is still valid.
We have the red fives in our hand.
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07-25-2011 , 06:03 PM
LOL, I'm dumb
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07-25-2011 , 06:13 PM
Hand is fine preflop and on the flop.
Prob should bet a bit more on the turn.
River, you are obviously calling the shove, there really isn't a question here. You know you're calling the river each and every time here for $82 more into this size pot. This honestly is more of a bad beat post than a search for advice.
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07-25-2011 , 09:27 PM
i like the way u played it alot

ruff beat

keep ya head up!
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07-31-2011 , 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by always_tilting
Sorry to say but you've flop a set and play it scared. There's nothing any of us can tell you because you don't gave the genes for NL. Why are you afraid of?
Never slow play a flopped set! Nobody knows you have a monster anyway, therefore, it is stupid to conceal the strength of your hand.
AT
+1

If your scared of playing your monsters fast, your in big trouble. Also, if I was raised with 77's on a x7x88 board online, I would maybe fold, villain dependent, but when I'm raised with a boat in a live 1/2 game, I'm shipping unless the villain has proved himself pretty far above average.

You gotta play your big hands for big pots.
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07-31-2011 , 11:51 PM
Reread these two replies, while the 1st is a bit hard to read, it accurately describes what you should be thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobie Newbertson
Preflop is fine.

OTF, being 5 handed X/R is a possibility I think. How have the players in the hand been playing OTF? Does the OR always CB? Do you think the CO or HJ will stab if it's checked to them? You should very rarely be B/F this flop imo. The OR folded so the only possible hand that beats you is 77 because don't you think that anyone else would have 3b KK pre? You should be forming a plan to get as many chips in the pot as quickly as possible. A X/R might possibly do that but it could also look really strong if you've been playing pretty nitty all night.

OTT, as others have said your bet is much to small. I'd probably go $70 to $90 considering there are still 2 villains here I would expect to get action from at least one of them because, as you said, it's a blank turn. You want to be playing for stacks so you should be figuring out the easiest way to get all the chips in the pot. If villain has 77, oh well, nh, reload, and continue playing (coolers suck and it would be understandable to just call it a night at this point though). Sure there are some river cards that you don't love seeing but you very likely have the best hand now so go for value and bet bigger to set up a nice easy river shove.

OTR, 7 isn't the greatest card in the world but B/F is super bad as we've crossed the commitment threshold (putting in ~50% of our stack as played) so if you're betting you have to call. Shoving is certainly an option here because do you really think villain is likely to reshove over you with a worse hand? I think he's more likely to call a shove with a worse hand than he is to reshove with a worse hand . If you were really afraid of a better boat then I suppose X/C is an option but he'll probably just shove anyway and he could check back Kx or whatever and then you lose value. You're more likely to lose value against the hands that you beat and still lose the pot to hands that rivered you so if you X/C so just shoving is probably best. Even as played there's less than a PSB left so you can still shove there.

Cliffs:

Call pre

Either donk or X/R OTF (which I think is the most interesting spot for discussion)

Bet bigger OTT

Shove OTR
And this, which may take you a while to get after your horrific beat. Still, it is what you should feel (note, I said feel, not think).

Quote:
Originally Posted by always_tilting
No,
When you flop a set you don't bet to thin the field. With a flopped set you want lots of action and you also want all the dudes to come after you. You don't care about any draw and you don't care about how many dudes are in the pot. The more the better because you've got the best odds to get paid off. If they try do draw to a flush or straight is doesn't matter because some of their outs will pair the board and make you a full house. Don't you know all this by now?
The only time when we bet with the intention to thin the field is when we have a vulnerable hand like TPTK or an overpair like AA or KK or any other combo for one pair. With a set you want to build the pot in such a way as to have a situation on the river that you will go all in and they are already committed and be "obligated" to call.

AT,
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08-01-2011 , 12:04 AM
Don't know how the action went in the other hand where you folded 77 on 887xx, but sounds like you shouldn't have folded there either. And you definitely shouldn't have told villain that you folded, because then he thinks you're a nit and he is unlikely to raise here for "thin value" with a 7, knowing that you'd fold everything worse.
Definitely don't consider folding here - perhaps lead a little bigger on flop and go for a check/shove on the turn. Personally I would check this flop.
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