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1/2 NL KJ suited in SB 1/2 NL KJ suited in SB

04-29-2013 , 12:08 PM
Relatively new to table so no great reads but a couple of young grinders at table that seem competent.

Hero (stack $240) is late 20's known solid regular that recently moved down stakes due to having to use bankroll for other expenses.
Villain (stack $220) young 20's aggressive player seems to be spewing a bit.

Villain raises to $10 in middle position, button calls, and hero flats in SB with KJs.

Flop (Pot $32): K J 3 rainbow

Hero bets $18, Villain calls, button folds.

Turn (Pot $68): 5 (suit irrelevant)

Hero bets out $46 and villain reraises to $115. Thoughts??

Noticed player's demeanor changed a bit when the 5 came....my plan was to barrel all 3 streets with top 2 and play it straightforward.
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 12:12 PM
Think my flop bet would've been better around $25-$30 range....
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 12:32 PM
Auto-jam
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 12:34 PM
I'd probably ship it in
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckx063
Auto-jam
Please explain your thought process.

Do you think that maximizes value?? What could he have in this spot??
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 12:43 PM
If he's aggressive and knows you're competent, he could have made the decision to call OTF with the intent to raise OTT with a QT kind of hand assuming you'll lay down TPGK. Your hand looks a lot like KQ (or possibly QTs) so he could also be doing this for value with AK. You have blockers for top 2 sets, so really all I'm afraid of is 33, which I think an aggressive player is raising to a donk bet on the flop. All in all, I'm shipping the turn and hoping villain has AA, AK or QT that feels "committed". If he has 55, then it's a cooler. Move on to the next one.
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 12:46 PM
Jam all day, results?
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 12:46 PM
I'm assuming the 5c completes the rainbow (otherwise it is certainly relevant). Can't see anything but jamming at this point...Villain has like $190 behind to start turn and *raises to $115. Your first to act River anyway... what are you going to do call turn & jam river? or check (pretty much terrible as he is likely not bluffing air on river anyways and of course not calling it). His value range we are ahead of is fairly thin but his continued bluffing range is even thinner imo..
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 12:59 PM
grunch: shove

i'm again not a fan of flatting pre out of position, but heads up i don't think this is unreasonable (and a lot of 2+2 prefer the argument of not bloating a pot anyway). the point is however you have top 2. you're only scared of a set and villain called your first 2 streets so 5 5 is unlikely. two pair is very likely. a good K is in range. and possibly a picked up draw is in range. shove now. villain has a very small stack size left compared to pot. if he is on any kind of draw he's more likely to call it all off now than on the river. if he's got his made hand or makes it on the river, you're not going to fold anyway, but he might.
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmrode67
I'm assuming the 5c completes the rainbow (otherwise it is certainly relevant). Can't see anything but jamming at this point...Villain has like $190 behind to start turn and *raises to $115. Your first to act River anyway... what are you going to do call turn & jam river? or check (pretty much terrible as he is likely not bluffing air on river anyways and of course not calling it). His value range we are ahead of is fairly thin but his continued bluffing range is even thinner imo..
Yeah, if the turn card doesn't complete a rainbow then the it's highly relevant if the player is competent. He could have easily turned a flush draw with Q10 or even 910, and now he's trying to add fold equity to hands where you only have top pair.

You have to shove though, I highly doubt you're behind.
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 01:41 PM
Sorry about that, screwed up stack sizes. Villain had $320 to start hand...not $220. Yes the 5 completed the rainbow so the suit was irrelevant. Thoughts with CORRECT STACK SIZES?? Shove turn still??

Didn't think I was behind at this spot (just my read on him)....my thinking was if he has AK, K5, KQ suited, or air and I shove then think he'll be able to fold...trying to maximize value on the hand.
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 01:46 PM
don't think you lose any value by shipping.
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 01:49 PM
yeah, if he has a stack sized bet behind him and you think he's capable of big-bet-bluffs then i can see going into call down mode and letting him value himself. but this is the problem with being out of position. he may have some showdown value... tried to steal the pot but now he may just check back river. do we lead out river, or check it? for me this would come to my gut. if i think he's capable of bluffing river, then give the check a chance (i did this yesterday when i turned nut flush and checked both turn and river out of position, and fortunately villain took his stab with an all-in bet on river... easy call with the nuts). against most villains, i think i'm either still shoving turn (assuming they don't have the guts to fire another barrel) or i'm leading the river hoping to induce or at least get a little value from a weaker hand that wants to fold but feels priced in.
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 85chickasaw
yeah, if he has a stack sized bet behind him and you think he's capable of big-bet-bluffs then i can see going into call down mode and letting him value himself. but this is the problem with being out of position. he may have some showdown value... tried to steal the pot but now he may just check back river. do we lead out river, or check it? for me this would come to my gut. if i think he's capable of bluffing river, then give the check a chance (i did this yesterday when i turned nut flush and checked both turn and river out of position, and fortunately villain took his stab with an all-in bet on river... easy call with the nuts). against most villains, i think i'm either still shoving turn (assuming they don't have the guts to fire another barrel) or i'm leading the river hoping to induce or at least get a little value from a weaker hand that wants to fold but feels priced in.
I agree with you here...he was spewing chips and tilting a little bit so felt like he would've moved all in on the river. Think this line would've had the most value...
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 02:17 PM
Results:

I shove the turn on top of his raise...he tanks and ends up folding. Shows K5. Think I played this incorrectly and could've got his whole stack.
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 02:28 PM
I'd probably also call preflop. I'd don't like being OOP, and the pot isn't as multiway as I'd hope (hopefully BB comes along), but it's a decent enough price for me (especially against a guy who could be aggro spewing).

I think I'd also donk. Villain most likely has got a decent enough piece of this board to continue (at worst probably gutshut + over) so it's unlikely he's going anywhere. I'd probably just pot it, or were we hoping he'd aggro raise over a smaller bet? I like the bet/bet/bet plan overall though.

Against an aggro guy who could be spewing, I obviously don't think we can ever consider folding here. So the only question is how to get the money in. My guess is that it's probably close been shoving now verus calling and then shoving the river; I think I prefer the former. I don't think I'd ever call and then check the river for fear he might check behind a showdownable hand.

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 02:49 PM
after seeing the results i don't think you played it poorly. i'm shocked a guy on aggro tilt folded 2 pair. especially if he's even slightly aware of his own image. if the hands were reversed we probably play it the same. don't know how this guy puts you on a better 2 pair or a set and let all the money in the pot go.
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote
04-29-2013 , 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUTexan
Results:

I shove the turn on top of his raise...he tanks and ends up folding. Shows K5. Think I played this incorrectly and could've got his whole stack.
His fold with K5 here is ridiculous. Given stack sizes, he should never have folded.

Board: Kd Js 3h 5c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 63.636% 63.64% 00.00% 5292 0.00 { JJ, 55, 33, AKs, KJs, AKo, KJo }
Hand 1: 36.364% 36.36% 00.00% 3024 0.00 { K5s, K5o }

Hero's play is fine.
1/2 NL KJ suited in SB Quote

      
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