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1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive 1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive

05-31-2013 , 09:13 AM
It's early in the session but I've already chipped down to maybe $250 from $300 bi. To my direct left is a grandma, probably 70 years old, who plays with the aggression of a 24 year old. I gather quickly she is a reformed 2/4 limit player who has learned to be a badass with her chips. And she has a stack upward of $800.

I get QTss and limp. She makes it $5 and there's a total of four callers.

Flop is T95 one spade

Checked to me I open for $20. I like my aggressive bet. Grandma calls as does the SB in Seat 3, also female and a thinking player. She has like $350.

Turn is the 6s.

I think I made a mistake here and checked. This is my reaction to getting two callers with a mediocre hand. It's like I automatically assume I'm dead but obviously I'll continue with the hand with my TP and FD so long as one of them doesn't overbet.

Grandma makes it $25. Seat 3 folds and I call.

River is a red K.

Again I check. Grandma, in all her aggressive glory, stabs the table with a bunch of reds. It turns out to be $85. I don't immediately fold but I get this feeling that she played this hand with a K in her hand and I don't think I'd be good if I called. This despite these tells: She bet an amount without counting it, she stabbed the table with it, she's not moving around much or breathing heavily, she has her face resting on her hand, covering her top lip.

Tell me what you'd do differently in this hand.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 09:18 AM
Never play poker with your grandma, or anyone elses grandma. They are all killers!
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 09:46 AM
Bet the turn for 50ish. You still likely have the best hand and the best draw. Lots of inferior pairs that added gutters will call.

River's probably a fold AP.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 09:56 AM
turn, keep control of the hand since you've improved. river, as played, you have to fold.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 12:39 PM
Pf is fold>raise>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>limp. If you're in the CO, then I like a raise better. If you're in EP, easy fold. I'm just sort of guessing where you are.

When you donk bet, you tell her you have TPMK based on the action. Hard to win at poker when people know what you have for a hand. Yeah, you're seeing all the tells for weakness, but she's probably good enough to fake them, too.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 12:55 PM
90% of her range here probably has you beat with the K coming out. I think the most likely hand she has here with the this many chips I grabbed out of my stack bet is KT or QJ. Easy fold.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 01:18 PM
Results:

Spoiler:
I did indeed fold. She showed 77. I'd like to think a turn bet of $50-$60 would have won me the pot.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 01:26 PM
She played her position, which won her the pot. Since she is that aggressive, I would get the seat change button and move away from her direct right. Until then I would play super nit, since playing OOP against aggressive people is one of the most difficult things in poker.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 01:27 PM
OTT does anybody like a c/r here? We have an aggressive player betting 25 into a pot of 80, making the pot 105, but this is an abnormally small bet by grandma. Repop it to 75-100 and commit?
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster65
OTT does anybody like a c/r here? We have an aggressive player betting 25 into a pot of 80, making the pot 105, but this is an abnormally small bet by grandma. Repop it to 75-100 and commit?
Not a big fan of this move OOP since you are basically commiting yourself on the river regardless of what comes out. Are you really going to check the river if a blank comes out after you just check raised? An all in bet is also terrible on the river because you are only getting called by hands that beat you, so you are never getting value there.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwerz23
Not a big fan of this move OOP since you are basically commiting yourself on the river regardless of what comes out. Are you really going to check the river if a blank comes out after you just check raised?
Of course it commits us. That was part of my question. It should, however, turn the K from a card that likely hits her range to a blank, and if she calls the turn c/r then I am checking river to induce (since she is aggro).
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster65
Of course it commits us. That was part of my question. It should, however, turn the K from a card that likely hits her range to a blank, and if she calls the turn c/r then I am checking river to induce (since she is aggro).
That's putting yourself in a really gross situation on the river when she makes a big bet. Just because she is aggro doesn't mean she can't hit cards. Best solution to this problem would definitely be the preflop fold. Problem with Q10 is even if you flop top pair in a raised pot you have no idea if you are out kicked.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwerz23
That's putting yourself in a really gross situation on the river when she makes a big bet.
I'm sorry, I respectfully disagree. Since we committed OTT we don't fear a big bet OTR, we are checking to induce just that.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster65
I'm sorry, I respectfully disagree. Since we committed OTT we don't fear a big bet OTR, we are checking to induce just that.
If you are going to commit on OTR why not just shove OTT? If she makes a big bet on the river, you really think TPMK is good here?
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwerz23
If you are going to commit on OTR why not just shove OTT?
Because shoving OTT folds out her air? And 77...

Quote:
Originally Posted by xwerz23
If she makes a big bet on the river, you really think TPMK is good here?
Against an aggro player that bet small OTT and called our c/r? Absolutely.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 01:59 PM
turn check/raise would be terrible.

if you think she will barrel air, much better to check/call turn and river. The check/raise seems to consist of a plan to fold the hands we beat and to pay off 2 pair +.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster65
I'm sorry, I respectfully disagree. Since we committed OTT we don't fear a big bet OTR, we are checking to induce just that.
Play it out. We c/r to $105 on the turn and she calls. We have $120 left for the K on the river and are covered by Grandma by a mile. What's she folding on the river that she called the turn c/r with? Spade draw is the only thing I can think of.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 02:01 PM
We really need to just bet this turn stiff.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 02:02 PM
There should be almost no spade draws in her range. We have Qs and Ts. Blocks the combo draw and the flopped top pair with backdoor spades. She has almost no spade draws in range. Pair or straight draw is so much more likely.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikechops
I don't follow either sport closely, but I have never heard of any woman competing with the best men, on anything close to equal terms.
As played pf and flop we need to bet fold this turn. The river sucks because now not only did 78 get there but JQ got there. I think I'd make a small blocker bet otr expecting to lose about half the time when called. As you played the hand you just have to check fold this river.

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1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 02:10 PM
Never thought I'd ever hear myself say this but... obviously get a seat chance to move to the left of grandma.

I consider preflop standard. Any clue what a minraise is all about?

I find myself checking the flop here a lot, but that might be a mistake. I should probably be betting it more.

I'm fine with the turn check. We got two callers on the flop, we've got an easily dominated weakish TP, plus we've now picked up a nice draw that we don't want to get blown off of. I've lost track of pot size, but a bet sure does make a fairly large pot for such a weak hand in a multiway pot. I'd always be check/calling here, but I'm passive like that.

Next time post pot size so we know what kinda odds we're getting. Tough spot, imo. She bet into two players on the turn and continues on the river. QJ/KQ/KJ/AK did get there. Wouldn't a hand like 77 (ETA: Lol, hadn't even read spoiler yet) just check down for showdown value here? Plus she is, after all, a grandma. I probably lean towards fold unless she can show up with lottsa weird bluffy hands here.

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor
The check/raise seems to consist of a plan to fold the hands we beat and to pay off 2 pair +.
I guess I can see this. my thought was that such a small turn bet looks like either a weak made hand (but one that makes us leery of the K), or a semibluff with a draw, which I feel better about charging somewhat to draw.

I do agree that I like leading the turn better, I was just trying to think of what we might do with the information that she bet so small OTT without losing the hands we are beating (sometimes hard for an aggro player to fold a c/r...)
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote
05-31-2013 , 04:20 PM
Pre is fold > raise > limp.

I don't hate the donk but it can turn our hand face up against thinking opponents.

As played I really hate the turn check. Other than a Queen or 10 what's a better card to double barrel than this? (Aside from a 2, 3, or 4 of spades.) If Granny raises the turn I'm piling it in.

As played I'm calling the river. We're playing against an aggro opponent who views us as weak and we have 2PGK. We're well ahead of her range.
1/2 NL: Becoming passive vs a Grandma who happens to be very aggressive Quote

      
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