1/2 on crazy Sat night table. Hero looks down at AT in SB. Couple of limps in LP including BTN, I (725) raise to 17$ to try and take it down preflop. Young guy in BB (170) calls, others fold.

Flop: (38) Q83

I check, he bets out 50$. It looks like he's trying to protect a weak queen with the overbet and I think he wants a fold. I immediately announce AI. I don't think he has another buyin in pocket from how he's acted in game. I figure I have pretty good equity even if called as I think my aces are clean, but not sure how much fold equity or if it's enough. He goes into the tank, and is asking me questions. I tell him I have a pair and I'll show if he calls. (Maybe I should never talk?) He's looking pretty pained for almost 2 minutes when another player calls clock. He calls at 30s mark. Was this a good play?

No. No it was not.

Grunch.

Why do you want to "take it down pre-flop" with ATs? You then flop the NFD on a relatively unconnected flop and then check? Why? Cbet the flop and go from there. As played once you check and he over bets the pot, your kinda in a crappy spot. All options kinda seem to suck TBH. You probably have good pot equity and I guess if he ever folds to a shove then I guess shoving is best. FWIW I doubt he folds much once he bets $50 OTF.

There are so many ways to play this hand. I'd probably elect to see the flop cheaply with ATs and just complete the SB. In a wild Saturday night game, you have to expect you'll get at least one caller and have to play this hand OOP in a raised pot, which I don't want to do.
Once you've raised Pf, this is a great flop for your hand so I'm surprised you didn't c bet.
But as played, he over bet and you jammed. At this point, he has to put you on a big hand and you may have been close to getting him off a Q. I think the shove looks pretty powerful he probably gets him off his hand a decent amount of the time. Combine FE with the times you make your flush or catch an ace (if the ace is live, which I kind of doubt), and this is not the worst play. Probably break even. BUT:
Don't talk!! Don't tell him you have a pair, don't offer to show. The table talk you related shows a lot of weakness and I think contributed to his call.

You probably have 40% equity on the flop against V's entire range so getting it in isn't terrible but just betting the flop would likely have been more profitable. As played you don't really represent anything and villain likely isn't folding after overbetting the pot.

How do you figure he has 50% equity?

The reason I raised more is what Dutch said, I didn't want to go 12 and have 2 callers IP on me. I didn't even consider completing, which is a good point. I usually would cbet the flop and in retrospect that seems like a good play.

was thinking against Qx specifically, but you're right it's pointless to mention that. Only thing that matters is V's entire range.

Are you playing with skilled, aggressive players, capable of handreading and exploiting you with position, that limp/call in late position?

No, the LP caller was an action player with 900, and the BTN was a bad player who stacked off 75 on A99 board with KQ.

Sounds like exactly the players you want in then.

Seems perfectly played to me. Plenty of stuff will take a stab when we check. Lots of better hands will fold to the shove. We don't mind a free card.

I think I should have just completed considering the other players. Wasn't thinking about that.

V had bet after a check with AJo on Kxx board, 20 into 30 and showed 10-20 hands earlier. Probably should have mentioned that earlier. I also had a tight image at the table.

I think V's range is 88+, KJss, and a bunch of Q hands down to Q8s. I think AA,KK just bet 2/3 pot, same as AQ. I think weak Q's and all sets/two pair and perhaps total bluffs might overbet the 50.

I think he folds 10% of the time, maybe even as high as 20% tops. I guess one of the things I can do is run equity calculations against his continuing range on my own and see with him folding 15% of the time or so what the numbers look like.

Unless you know exactly how players in general or the specific villain will respond to your verbal cues I wouldn't say a word. That's a big source of information that few people recognize, utilize or choose to spend their time attempting to correlate but I think it's so informative especially at this level with players who have no idea the deductions that can be logically reached through inspections of their reactions.

i think you should 2/3 pot c-bet this to avoid these situations.

If he has Qx and bets 50 into the pot, then he is a fool to fold to your AI.

I think the play is OK. Your AI check raise looks strong on paper as it seems like a trap type play to get some action from him. With the $17 pf raise you are repping strong and the C/R backs it up. However, the table talk is what gave you away. Saying you have a pair is a weakness tell IMO. Even with the call you know he is probably not more than 1 pair given the time it took him to call. With the FD out and discounted A and BD straight draw it's not a bad play.

I would favor a raise to $13ish and c-bet 1/2 pot. If V raises, it would depend on how much to decide call or fold.

I would NEVER EVER say a word to V about what I may or may not have.

Okay from the beginning why this hand is no good:

Preflop-
You are bloating the pot out of position with a hand that is less than spectacular when you could see a cheap flop with all sorts of dominated flush draws.

Flop -
It's a great flop for you, both equity wise and in the fold equity you likely have from a cbet. However, lets get one thing very straight. When a guy you read as scared money overbets the pot for 50 you have no fold equity in anything you do. Remember, this isn't just an overbet, this is an overbet for what people at this level consider a serious amount. He is never folding here especially given stacksizes. What's more, your hand may look pretty on this board and you have DECENT equity, but you do not have anywhere near enough equity to get it in here, and villain is always calling the all in.

Now this was my major beef with the thread that made me post again. I feel like the OP and even some of the posters are possibly even unknowingly using the information about the villain grimacing about the call as information to narrow his range. Remember, we don't know that he's upset about making a call when he makes the bet, and even at that all 1/2 players do this. They hem and haw and complain but at the end of the day they always make that call.

the better the player the better this play is. against some who cant fold its kinda spewy but not terrible. if its against someone whos thinking other than the nut flush draw the worst hand your shoving is kq/aq. so aq should be the bottom of a good players calling range and should fold out everything else. its all player dependent

Why would someone with a strong hand check this board heads up and risk a free card? Check raise looks a lot like a flush draw to me. More importantly, the guy just called 17 and bet out 50. What is he doing this with that's worst than AQ and KQ anyway?

Grunch

I'd rather just bet the flop and go from there. I'm not really understanding why you checked. Villain usually misses this board and will often fold.

If you could pick any board that is does not make you a pair. This has to be at top of list to cbet. Board is not connected and you have Nut flush draw, +1 over, and back door straight draw.

CBet 1/2 pot. If he doesn't float in position, then we can check turn.

If he likes to float in position, then we can double barrel alot of turns.

Either way. This is mandatory cbet. Even if he is only folding 25% of the time we will show a profit given our equity.

Can't remember seeing anyone over bet flop and fold. So I don't like your jam. Given stack sizes. It wasn't terrible.

Def not optimal.

did you check the flop to trap or get a free card?

It seems like you did to trap, so you have to push as played imo. but c-bet flop

Pre and flop are fine. I mix calls and raises preflop with ATs, depending on the table. With just a couple LP limpers, I'd probably raise too. Good check-raise on the flop. You're fine getting a free card if villain checks back and you should raise big if he bets.

The main mistake here is your table talk. I think you correctly want him to fold. Saying you'll show if he folds sounds very weak. And it's not just what you say, but how you say it. You may have projected even more weakness with your tone or body language. Avoid the table talk because you're never sure what information you're giving away.

Why are we not betting this flop? Would you play KK & AA this way?