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1/2 - NFD line check 1/2 - NFD line check

12-03-2011 , 10:51 PM
1/2 at Borgata. Hope I can get a line check on the hand up till the turn, then some advice on how big to lead if I hit my flush.

Villain 1 ($80 stack) - Early 20's Indian girl. Huge calling station. Doesn't raise without 2p or better. Almost always limps pre. Often doesn't raise with big hands like trips anyway.

Villain 2 ($250 stack) - Early 20's white guy. Hoodie and headphones. Doesn't seem very good though. He opened several times but I don't think he cbet one time and just c/f. Seems to limp a lot more than a good player should. I haven't seen him showdown really at all so I'm not sure exactly what he's playing.

Hero ($300 stack) - Just moved a few orbits ago. I've been pretty card dead, but I stacked a guy when I iso'd JTs, hit a straight on the turn and stacked a guy who flopped bottom set.

Villain 1 (EP) limps
2 limp
Villain 2 (HJ) limps
button limps
Hero (SB) A2 limps
bb checks

Pot ~12
Flop: Kj9
Hero bets $7, V1 calls $7, V2 raises to $20, Hero calls, V1 calls

I check this a lot, but the table was pretty passive postflop. It is a flop that hits a lot of hands, so thinking back I probably should have c/c.

There were some deep players though (who folded) and I was hoping to disguise my hand, b/c fish don't think people ever lead with draws.

Pot ~70
Turn: Kj98
Hero checks, V1 checks, V2 bets $35, Hero?

As I'm thinking it through, I see V1 counting out $35. Even though she has like $25 left, I'm almost certain she's calling because I think if she was going to fold she wouldn't do that, and if she was going to shove she woudln't count. So it looks like I'm getting $35 to win $140 or 4-1. That's about what I need to hit my NF even if I don't get paid off.

Hero calls, V1 calls

----------

River actually came an ace. I checked (with the intention of folding).

Lets pretend river came a perfect card, like 3

How much should I donk on this river? I don't know if I can get paid off big because it seems like the only person who could have a flush is the short stack with $25 left.

How does a donk of about $70 into $140 seem on the river if I hit the spade? Or should I bet more?
1/2 - NFD line check Quote
12-03-2011 , 11:24 PM
$70 seems like a good amount. V1 is most likely calling and it's an amount that V2 might have a hard time folding a smaller flush/straight/set/KJ.
1/2 - NFD line check Quote
12-04-2011 , 12:22 AM
I would bet more if you are playing with fishy type players and that is what they seem like they are going to call any way. I would bet more like $100 or a little more. I would bet something that the Q10s or 910s would want to come over top of. The $70 screams value bet even to a novice player. My hope would be that the V2 would push over top of us. You have disguised your hand well. I think that KJ+ calls you anyway if its $70 or $100. So getting value from those other hands is what I'm hoping for.
1/2 - NFD line check Quote
12-04-2011 , 04:38 PM
Is my lead on this flop a mistake? As I said I don't always lead it, and it is a pretty dangerous flop that could easily connect with someone. If I just c/c I probably get better odds on my draw. On the other hand if I bet/bet/bet, I figured that no one is going to put me on a flush and I can win a lot from a deeper stack.

In terms of river sizing, I tend to discount flushes for villain here since I have the a hi flush draw. Unless he has specifically 9sXs or QsTs, it's unlikely he has a flush. I don't know if sets or straights call a PSB here.

I thought that around $70-80 might get called here, plus I probably get a little overlay with whatever the short stack has left.

If he has QsTs he might raise anyway.
1/2 - NFD line check Quote
12-04-2011 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerIsFrustrating
Is my lead on this flop a mistake? As I said I don't always lead it, and it is a pretty dangerous flop that could easily connect with someone. If I just c/c I probably get better odds on my draw. On the other hand if I bet/bet/bet, I figured that no one is going to put me on a flush and I can win a lot from a deeper stack.
With it being 6 ways it's not going to be often that you win the pot unimproved. If you do expect multiple callers your bet can be considered a value bet. The downside is you are opening yourself up to get raised off the hand. So I don't know if leading is a mistake, but if it is it's a small one.
1/2 - NFD line check Quote
12-04-2011 , 06:00 PM
I don't think leading is terrible. I say a 10-20% of the time I will lead with my NFD's. I second your theory of it leads to bigger pay offs as LLS players never seem to read the line as a flush draw. You get a ton of additional value on the turn and take control. That said I usually find c/c to be my preferred flop line here.
1/2 - NFD line check Quote

      
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