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1/2 missing value w/ monsters or charging villaians appropriately 1/2 missing value w/ monsters or charging villaians appropriately

04-28-2011 , 04:01 PM
1/2

Playing at table for about 2 hours. My image is TAG. I have had a few strong starting hands that I have played hard but haven't shown down much (mostly folds to me on Turn and River).

V1 has shown perpensity to call down with top pair pretty much regardless of kicker and seems to continue OTF with 2nd pair a lot. I have taken a couple pots from him.

V2 has made some difficult (not neccessarily spectacular but tough) folds.

Hero in CO ($450) AA
V1 SB ($550)
V2 HJ ($250)

3 limps to Hero who bets $15
folds to V1 in SB who calls
folds to V2 in HJ who calls

Flop ($45) A Q 8

I figure Qx to be a significant part of Villain's ranges and the board is fairly wet. I figure V1 will call one bet with any Q or any draw and some PPs. If V1 calls V2 may come along with any draw or will just fold.

Hero bets $35
V1 calls
V2 calls

Turn ($150) 7

Here I sometimes struggle with the correct bet size. With 2 villains continuing OTF, I have to consider at least one is drawing. Of course I have outs to boat up but with villains flop continuing ranges I figure I am 70-80% equity better and want to get as much money in the pot as I can. I also don't really want to blow them off completely.

Usually I tend to go 2/3ish pot size bets here. If V1 calls a $100 bet, V2 is getting 3.5:1 as a 4:1 dog to a flush draw.

Of course if V1 happens to be drawing it's a tough call for him at 2.5:1 and with V2 yet to act.

If V1 folds this V2 probably doesn't chase a draw unless it's a big combo.

Thoughts on flop bet and how you approach sizing this turn bet. How big and your reasoning?

Last edited by cAmmAndo; 04-28-2011 at 04:07 PM.
1/2 missing value w/ monsters or charging villaians appropriately Quote
04-28-2011 , 04:24 PM
It's always a tough spot with aces. The scariest of all scare cards is out there, and there is only one left in the deck. Your best bet at making money here is letting them chase their draws, so I think you have to smack them on the turn.

I usually go with anywhere from $100 to $120 here (usually to the high side), depending on how tight the villains are and how often they may think I am FOS. If it is a draw monkey who can't let go of any flush draw, then pot it at $150.

The good thing is that if you get called, you have a pot of $350+ and a less than pot sized bet left behind. If they do stumble backwards into two/pair or a set, or have the ace with a good kicker, you have a shot at getting it on the river.
1/2 missing value w/ monsters or charging villaians appropriately Quote
04-28-2011 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cAmmAndo
If V1 folds this V2 probably doesn't chase a draw unless it's a big combo
With this board, any draw is almost guaranteed to have a combo so $100 feels appropriate here. Any decent size bet is announcing you have AK or better (unless you have shown some decent bluffs) so it really doesn't matter that you have a set except that they don't realize their 2 pair will be no good if they are trying to trap you with 7h8h or some 2 pair they may get on the river.
1/2 missing value w/ monsters or charging villaians appropriately Quote
04-28-2011 , 04:39 PM
I thought your bets were fine.

I still bet about 2/3 pot on turn. If both villains are drawing here(on this board) they pretty much have to have flush draws. So they have less outs (7) and 2 of those give you a full house.
1/2 missing value w/ monsters or charging villaians appropriately Quote
04-28-2011 , 05:06 PM
Did it get checked to you on the turn? You left that out.
1/2 missing value w/ monsters or charging villaians appropriately Quote
04-28-2011 , 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blargle
Did it get checked to you on the turn? You left that out.
Yes sorry checked to me on Flop and Turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffle
Do we have a bet-size that villain 2 might shove over us?
I really don't know. My guess is it would have to be a fairly weak smallish bet and if V1 just flatted he might shove a FD or something but that would really be a guess. I had no indication from his play that he was really aggressive with draws or spazzy.

Last edited by cAmmAndo; 04-28-2011 at 05:18 PM.
1/2 missing value w/ monsters or charging villaians appropriately Quote
04-28-2011 , 07:01 PM
Check to you on the turn strongly suggests a FD/FD+pair or something like QJ. Could be Ax but unlikely given three aces accounted for.

Qx is drawing dead.
FD has 6 outs ~ 12%
There are three hearts in the deck that actually give you the nuts ~ 6%

I would bet just over 1/2 pot OTT with a plan to bet about 1/3 - 1/2 pot OTR if safe. I think any more and you'll lose your customers here. This is how I would play it but I don't think there is really a "bad" bet size here as long as it's at least half pot. PSB or even shove (you may induce a hero call from Qx thinking you are drawing) would OK here IMO.
1/2 missing value w/ monsters or charging villaians appropriately Quote
04-29-2011 , 04:57 PM
Bet sizing isn't a real problem here even against a combo draw I woul bet 100-120 and I count 7 possible flush outs with 2 flush outs giving you a snazy boat and 3 more gutshot outs. If you were deeper the implied odds might be more of a problem.
1/2 missing value w/ monsters or charging villaians appropriately Quote

      
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