raise to 50 total

This is exactly wrong. The original quote was right.

You have to think about your equity in the money going in right now. With 15 outs and one card to come, you only have roughly 1/3 equity in the pot. The people advocating a raise here are essentially arguing that it is ok to make a relatively small TFTOP error now in the hopes that a villian will make a very large error on the river when we make our hand. We need good implied odds, which requires our opponent to have a decent amount left to be bet on the river.

Given how this hand played, I call the turn. Since we have good equity, and the possibility of making a higher straight than our opponent on the river, I think it would be a disaster to get 3 bet here. However, if our opponents are also drawing, we should be able to get money in on the river regardless.

To those who say raise, are we barrelling the river when we miss? If not, a turn raise just feels like spew to me.

I think you need to raise an amount that will reopen the betting hoping the asian guy shoves. If he made it $10 and you make it $50 his shove of $80 wouldn't reopen. I don't think anyone is betting $10 without hoping to get the rest in at this point?

You do realize that unless we are getting money in 3 ways we are an equity dog on the turn, right? And that many of our outs are potentially held by our opponents? Why lay our entire stack on the turn when we can get it in against hands we want to be against on the river, while folding against the made hands we don't on the river?

This is madness! People trying to manipulate the pot so that they can get in stacks on the river may have a point, especially if we are VERY deep. But intentionally reopening the betting when we have a draw with one to come, HOPING to get it in...?

Tell ya what. Give me the 2-pair hand against this logic every time!

You realize the last few posts have been about the river play after we have made the nut straight, right?

lol second post..., I stand corrected...thx!

Im just calling the turn, I cant believe the logic that we should raise since we want money in the pot if we hit. So to everyone who raises, what do you do when you get 3b big? I just dont like the idea of getting pushed off a hand with this many outs because we played it too aggressive.

As far as the river play, I like a shove or pretty close to it.

I agree with this.

Call. Fish guy isnt gonna be folding often which will mean he has a pair. Even worse is if someone 3bets. Seriously we are not online and are playing vs nuts fish who don't pass.