9 handed live @ casino 10% up to 10$, 2$ bbj

Villain 1 calls 2$

Villain 2 Old non-believer, checks bad hands bets big good hands calls 2$

Hero Q-Q CO raises 14$

Villain 3 lag calls 14$
Villains 1 calls 14$
Villain 2 calls 14$

Flop

4-5-9 rainbow

Villain 1 check
Villain 2 check
Hero bets 21$
Villain 3 calls 21$
Villain raises 164$ and is all-in
Villain 2 folds
Hero calls
Villain 3 folds

I hate these spots heads up, because sometimes it's A9 or TT and others its a set, and its very player dependent on how it's weighted.

In this case he raised into 3 people, I'm going to sigh fold this one, but hard to fault a call or rejam.

I think you missed the '1' before 'raises to $164‘.
Pre: I would open bigger.
Flop: If V1 is unknown, when V1 went all in I fold.

Smells like 54 or a set to me. With no information its a fold, unless youve seen this person go aggro and try crazy bluffs or they wildly overvalue top pair. Average 1/2 villain is not doing any check raise bluffing and especially less so when multiway.

You gave us info on V2 and V3 but nothing on V1, LOL. Anything helps. If you have no info, snap fold.

PRE - raise bigger. This shouldn't be four ways to the flop.

FLOP - We can and probably should check, with a plan to make a delayed c-bet on the turn. The opponent behind us might want to stab at it, leading to one of the other V's in EP going for an x-raise, allowing us to get away from our hand while losing the minimum.

If we want to c-bet, we should bet super-small, like 15%-20% pot. Maybe bet $10, at most. Your c-bet was almost 1/2 pot (net of rake and promo drop), which is way too much.

Our hand doesn't need much protection, and our opponents' could have a ton of 2P / sets that want to raise if we c-bet too big. The short-stacks can jam here and put us in the blender.

As played, when V over-bet 2x pot, unless we have a reason to think V's doing this as a bluff or with a worse hand for value, I think we need to fold. It sucks, because we could be folding the best hand.

Takeaway - raise bigger pre, and just check-back or c-bet small in spots like this.

FWIW, I am definitely c-betting this flop. I think $21 is fine, although I'd go $20 or $25 ($21 bothers me, but that's just me). I want them to call w/ 67 and A9, T9, etc. Get a little money in there and don't give free cards. It's just unlucky that an unknown (we assume) check/shoved here.

I think this is closer than most people are thinking, but do we know anything about this player's limp-calling range - ie can hands like JJ/TT be in there? If so I think this is very close with hands like A9s and 76s in there as well. If not it probably is a reluctant fold, but it's not a snap fold for me.

I'm betting this flop a lot, probably to 10-15.

The rundown of the hand, what actually happened.

He raise to 164$. I take 3 seconds to read him not having a set and call. That 14$ pre is a call me bet, which resulted in exactly that, but IÂ’m seriously considering raising bigger pre there, obviously the lag player to my left was nuts and was calling much bigger, and now the pot is four waysÂ…

Anyway I call. I think I have the best hand, lots of 9x 8x 7x on that board, board which is impossible to have a made straight, but certainly hits low cards, which these guys totally have some of the time limp calling.

So I call, not feeling super comfortable because im all in, just donÂ’t like to be all in without close to the nuts.

So run down comes

4-5-9-9-3

Villain turns over 67o for seven high straight.

Feels like how I lose online tournaments, he tried to semi bluff shoves me out, and gets lucky. Absolute disaster. But I lost so many times like that, even though I look +ev, I still think im doing something wrong somewhere and is willing to accept help or tips or ways to see it differently and do something different.

My personal thoughts are that raise bigger pre, and hammer the **** out of that pot, I have the best hand anyway most of the time, and these guys calllls, or raise me all in with seven high eh, I guess he sees weakness where there isnÂ’t, but to give him some rope, I did not always have it with a relatively bigger size than that, so he thinks he can get me out. I donÂ’t think he has a set not at 164$, if he raise to 64$ maybe, but all in? I donÂ’t think so.

So 21$ is 1/3 pot, looks small to me, well not really but to him it looks small, if I bet 45$ there, or 70$, I think he stops thinking he can bluff me out. Ffff.

I’m assuming the turn was an 8, not a 9. Never underestimate the spaz factor at 1/2. Call or fold was pretty close. You got your money in good. Why the fuss?

So just to show you real quick since you are doubting your play.

Let’s say that his range is what he actually had, 67o, plus all sets and all combos of 54.

That means he has 16 combos of hands with about 32% equity, and 18 combos of hands that you are well behind.

If this is his actual range, folding is OK getting worse than 2:1.

In order for folding to be a significant mistake, he’d have to also have hands like suited wheel aces with backdoor flush draws, or worse 1 pair.

So overall if you can’t rule those out, you may have to call here.

But the idea that you should have bet bigger to stop the bluffs is results-oriented and wrong. First off, he might have shoved anyway. Second, you WANT him putting in money when behind. The wider a range he shoves with, the happier you are to call. If that’s me I’m happy to see I got the money in ahead and I shrug off the result. I’m only unhappy if he shows me a set since then I’m not sure if he ever makes this play without one.

To add to what Vernon said...

Theory says we should be c-betting less multi-way, and generally only for value, but taking a smaller size. We want opponents to call with their weaker hands.

There are certain boards we can c-bet for value, not just because our hand is strong, but also because the board favors our overall range. This flop isn't one of those boards. We're not going to have all the 2P and set combos here. We might have 99, but our opponents can have 99, 55, 44, and 54.

Therefore we should be checking this flop a lot. If the action checks through on the flop, and action checks to us again on the turn, we can make a delayed c-bet. Otherwise, if someone leads out on the flop, we can usually just call, and occasionally we can raise, depending on the card.

C-betting small for value is going to induce some x/r-bluffs, but that's fine, if we're c-betting boards that favor our range. We can continue against an opponent who has a range that will be pretty face up, on a board where we can have a ton of thick value. Best case, we win. Worst case, we lose the minimum.

Looking back on this hand - your larger c-bet on this flop likely induced V to x/r-jam as a bluff, yet with a lot of fold equity, and with a hand that has fairly good equity against your range, that doesn't have much super-strong value here.

If you checked back, or bet small, it would have been harder for V1 to jam for value or as a bluff. His value wants more in the pot before he jams. His bluffs don't want to risk the whole stack when the pot is too small.

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