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1/2 live QQ 3bet pot 1/2 live QQ 3bet pot

08-19-2010 , 07:33 AM
I´m in UTG+1($500)villian is is UTG+2 ($230)
UTG raises to $6 he has done this before and folded to my 3bet I raise to $22 with QdQh villian flats, all others fold.

Villian is a bad loose passive i have seen him limp AK and he generally plays ATC, he is down 3 buy-ins so far shoving on OESD, flush draws and a couple of coolers.

Flop 6d6cTd
I check
Villain checks
Turn 5c
I bet $28
Villian raises $56
I call
River 2h
Hero???
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08-19-2010 , 07:41 AM
i'd bet the flop since you are most likely ahead.

As played I'd prefer to check/call i get the feeling that villain is on tilt and willing to bluff you off your hand with a strong raise if you bet, which i'd find difficult to call. So I'd prefer to just let him bet and call.
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08-19-2010 , 07:56 AM
I checked the flop for pot control. Plus I want to have a range for when I check AK.
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08-19-2010 , 07:57 AM
i hope ur joking about pot control..

Why are you checking the flop after 3betting pre? If villain is loose passive he's going to be calling alot more than betting so do you expect him to build the pot for you?

Has this villain shown the ability to flat with KK or AA pre? I would think someone down 3 buyins is going to try to build the pot as much as possible with a monster so I think he would most likely 4bet with KK or AA.

Im firing 3 streets here against a passive and going to the felt with that board against the villain. As played..check/call the river in case he's bluffing or value betting the 10.

Last edited by mp_all_in; 08-19-2010 at 07:57 AM. Reason: just saw ur post..
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08-19-2010 , 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlep
Plus I want to have a range for when I check AK.
Wat
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08-19-2010 , 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp_all_in
As played..check/call the river in case he's bluffing or value betting the 10.
Or the 2. Or the 5. Or JJ. Or 88. Or AK. Or 78.
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08-19-2010 , 09:24 AM
As played, it looks like villain called with pocket 5's and spiked the his five on the turn. I think at this point you have to assume you are beat.

Two reasons for such:

Raised on turn - BALUGA WHALE THEOREM
Min raise - Confident, I have the nuts type bet. I can't imagine him doing this as a bluff, and I can't imagine him doing it with worse than QQ. I think your QQ is as good as 22 in this spot. This also screams a made hand on the flop, that was trapping and waiting on you to stick money in. Either way villains line is way too strong for us to consider 1 pair being good here.



Assuming this is what happened, properly betting the flop would have saved you some money as I can't see him continuing on that board unless he's got a made hand or he specifically puts you on AK-AQ and was planning on taking you to the river anyway.
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08-19-2010 , 09:31 AM
On the river, the pot is 166 and villain has 153 left.

Check/call a bet of up to around 65, consider folding to a larger bet because the guy is passive and is probably not betting or bluffing big with AT here.

With these stack sizes, its fine to check the flop here against this guy. Its also fine to bet.

Your reason for checking the flop would be that you have no idea what villain has and you're in a way ahead/way behind situation. On the one hand the flop is pretty dry and you kind of want to see if you can get some value out of some weak holdings that might be scared away by a cbet on the other hand you don't want to commit on this flop because if this villain comes over the top it probably means he has a 6. I also get your point about wanting to have a range for AK in this spot but at this level the other players will probably just play their cards rather than adjusting to you.

However, when you check, you basically need to resign yourself to not knowing where you stand in the hand and aim for around 2 streets of value. You'll still be good most of the time against this guy's range on this kind of board. Villain could easily have a T and he could think that he is raising the turn for value.

Last edited by Nogyong; 08-19-2010 at 09:36 AM.
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08-19-2010 , 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp_all_in
As played..check/call the river in case he's bluffing or value betting the 10.
This.
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08-19-2010 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlep
I checked the flop for pot control. Plus I want to have a range for when I check AK.
I lol-ed hard at this...maybe pot control pre by not 3betting..lol.

Cbet flop for value ffs
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08-19-2010 , 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlep
I checked the flop for pot control. Plus I want to have a range for when I check AK.
Pot control? The pot on the flop is ~$50. Effective stacks are $208. The SPR is 4. You have an overpair. There's a FD out there. You've seen villain stack off on draws.

Your goal should be to play for stacks, not pot control. Pot the flop and jam the turn. Get value from worse hands and make him pay to draw.
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08-19-2010 , 07:40 PM
Quote:
i hope ur joking about pot control..
This. The only likely hands that flatted your 3-bet pre are hands that need to hit a card to beat you (AK, maybe down as far as AJ with this guy?, and smaller PPs than QQ, and maybe some suited stuff) Why would you give him a free card to beat you? In a WA/WB position like this, I think you have to bet to get some notion of where you are and charge him if he's drawing.

Usually you won't get a call on a board like that unless he's got medium overs. You'll either take it down or get raised.

As played, I can see argument for betting river as a block/thin value ($60ish), or check and re-evaluate. Prob call up to $70, and if he pushes, try to fig if this is a spazzy missed draw push, or the real deal.
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08-19-2010 , 08:44 PM
Maybe pot control is a bit of a misdirected statement, I had seen him overbet on the flop with air, basically I had seen him do everything but call. The river action was check check and he tabled 99 which just made me feel like I missed value. Once he checks the flop I think the only monster he can have is TT as these players don´t check back trips ever.
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08-20-2010 , 09:41 AM
Again, you are wrong. These players check back TT all day long. Actually, some of the worst poker players might be very good in checking back in a way that will make you think he has nothing.


(Sry for my bad english, but you probably understand what i want to say.)
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08-20-2010 , 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlep
Once he checks the flop I think the only monster he can have is TT as these players don´t check back trips ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LucianosDoll
Again, you are wrong. These players check back TT all day long.
You are saying the same thing.
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