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<img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river <img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river

06-01-2010 , 02:14 PM
Local casino, I have only played a few hours with the villian. The villian is an older man who looks to be in his 70's. Has played a lot of hands. For the most part, he and I are the only two winners in the last 2-3 hours. I have around $500, and the villian covers me.

UTG raises to $10 and five people call to me in the BB and I call with the 45.

Flop ($50) 547 And I lead out for $30 only the villian on the button calls.

Turn ($110)Q And I lead for $60. I feel like I should bet a little more here, maybe $80-$90, But I was very sure that he had some kind of draw. Maybe 76, 66, 56, 46. Or something in that range.

River ($230)Q In my mind one of the worst cards that could come. Do we like to bet here again? In my mind if I bet here it would be trying to bluff him off a hand like 76, or 66. If we bet, how much? Or do we check, and hope he checks behind?
<img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river Quote
06-01-2010 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skietz
Local casino, I have only played a few hours with the villian. The villian is an older man who looks to be in his 70's. Has played a lot of hands. For the most part, he and I are the only two winners in the last 2-3 hours. I have around $500, and the villian covers me.

UTG raises to $10 and five people call to me in the BB and I call with the 45.

Flop ($50) 547 And I lead out for $30 only the villian on the button calls.

Turn ($110)Q And I lead for $60. I feel like I should bet a little more here, maybe $80-$90, But I was very sure that he had some kind of draw. Maybe 76, 66, 56, 46. Or something in that range.

River ($230)Q In my mind one of the worst cards that could come. Do we like to bet here again? In my mind if I bet here it would be trying to bluff him off a hand like 76, or 66. If we bet, how much? Or do we check, and hope he checks behind?
Makes more sense that he missed his flush draw. If you do not bet again you leave yourself open to a bluff, then what? You need to put out a bet that looks like a value bet, use it as a blocker. If he comes over the top you can get away from it.
<img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river Quote
06-01-2010 , 02:26 PM
I'd definitely bet more on the turn, you're almost giving him the right price to draw. As played, I'd check and hope he checks behind. My feeling is that if he's come this far with 7x,66,88,99, he's probably not folding on the river. If all he has is a busted draw you still win.
<img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river Quote
06-01-2010 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambit2300
Makes more sense that he missed his flush draw. If you do not bet again you leave yourself open to a bluff, then what? You need to put out a bet that looks like a value bet, use it as a blocker. If he comes over the top you can get away from it.
Against an aggressive player I might throw out a blocker but most 70 year old guys don't bluff their busted draws on the river.
<img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river Quote
06-01-2010 , 02:30 PM
Bet more like 45 on the flop, and more on the turn. If you are afraid of straight/flush draws you are giving them the right prices to draw.
<img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river Quote
06-01-2010 , 03:00 PM
I think you have to bet here ... unless villain regularly bluffs missed draws (which sounds unlikely), then you can check/call (although very thin). If you bet and he raises, then you can put him on trip Q's / full house easily and lay down. Sounds like a standard bet/fold situation.

He likely has two clubs, 66, 76, 88, A7 or a flopped set that filled up on river (lowest probability), and you lose to all but the flush draw.

I would bet around 1/2 pot here ($115ish).
<img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river Quote
06-01-2010 , 03:56 PM
Uh..... am I the only one that would instacall a half pot sized bet as villain with 66 or 67 on this board on the river? Hero is really only representing full houses or a flopped straight by triple barreling this board. If villain is capable of thinking then I hate bluffing here. Plus like Tom said most old guys don't bluff missed draws on the river so making a blocking bet seems pointless.
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06-01-2010 , 04:48 PM
ugh, I hate betting here. If he called on the turn he is calling on the river with any piece. He may bluff a missed draw so I'd rather c/c or c/f depending on how I felt there.
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06-01-2010 , 06:26 PM
i would lead out a slight overbet on flop. The same on the turn. live villains will call these overbets with draws almost 100%. On river, easiest check ever and villain is going to check back almost always and we take the pot. Valuebetting this river is really bad IMO. We would be turning our hand into a bluff totally. No need to.
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06-02-2010 , 09:59 AM
After I bet $60 on the turn I knew I should have bet more. I still think $80-$100 would have been the right size bet.

I was not worried about the villian betting the river if I checked to him. I was almost sure he had some kind of draw, or pair + draw and he would not try to bluff the river.

He ended up checking behind on the river with 66 to win the pot.

I am sure that I could have bet the river and he would have folded, I just thought a lot of the hands he calls me with on the turn, he calls with on the river bet. But a hand like 66 he very well may have folded to a river bet.
<img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river Quote
06-02-2010 , 11:13 AM
Meh, I don't know if you move him off 66's on the river. I imagine he's calling a smallish bet and if you jam now it's going to look fishy since you only bet half pot on the flop and turn. I think you played it fine and just got unlucky.
<img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river Quote
06-02-2010 , 11:17 AM
Bet more on the turn, $60 is too low to price people out of a draw. As played, value bet the river
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06-02-2010 , 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baconn
As played, value bet the river
Our two pair has been counterfieted, how can this be a value bet if no worse hand is calling us?

I check behind as we ahead of busted draws and I don't think we're folding a better hand that has come this far, especially since villain should be fairly confident we don't have a Q so a bet here looks exactly like a bluff.

FWIW, the OP pot sizes seem a little screwed up; if I read things right, 7 people have seen the flop for $10 each, and yet flop pot size is only $50, that's one helluva rake!
<img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river Quote
06-02-2010 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Our two pair has been counterfieted, how can this be a value bet if no worse hand is calling us?

I check behind as we ahead of busted draws and I don't think we're folding a better hand that has come this far, especially since villain should be fairly confident we don't have a Q so a bet here looks exactly like a bluff.

FWIW, the OP pot sizes seem a little screwed up; if I read things right, 7 people have seen the flop for $10 each, and yet flop pot size is only $50, that's one helluva rake!

I did screw up on my OP. After the first raise we had three callers plus me is what I should have typed. Sorry for the mistake.

Thanks for the replies everybody! I felt like I played the hand fine for the most part. I should have bet more on the turn, but oh well.
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06-02-2010 , 04:50 PM
bet more on flop, bet more on turn. Bluffing this rvr is like lighting money on fire. Villain is rarely folding after another Q comes on the rvr.
<img - Live flopped two pair, now do I bluff the river Quote
06-04-2010 , 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.boxer
Uh..... am I the only one that would instacall a half pot sized bet as villain with 66 or 67 on this board on the river? Hero is really only representing full houses or a flopped straight by triple barreling this board. If villain is capable of thinking then I hate bluffing here. Plus like Tom said most old guys don't bluff missed draws on the river so making a blocking bet seems pointless.
You make a block bet to get better hands to fold. If he bluffs missed draws then you check/call. Why would you want to make him fold a potential bluff by putting out a blocker bet?

In this case you HAVE to bet, even though you know you are behind. Yes, a good thinking player will look you up, but you are well behind the vast majority of his range and the pot is pretty decent, so you just can't give up here. A triple barrel shows a lot of strength, and most villains will fold out flopped pairs here. I guess it all depends on your opponent. If you are up against a very good player, I think you can give up.
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