Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk 1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk

02-09-2011 , 05:09 PM
Villain is a middle-age black guy(very scummy/ghetto looking, no offense). He has been running insanely well. He's a huge donk who plays about 50%-60% of his hands and limp calls very often. He has previously showed bluffs 3 or 4 times. He "slow plays", and value bet small when he has big hands every time(trips, sets, etc.) We have been playing at the same table for about 5 hours.

I just lost a huge pot($600 pot) prior to this hand(someone hit a 2 outer and I lost boat over boat) on the river. Prior to that hand I had a tight image(I don't think it really matters to him).




UTG limps
UTG + 1 folds
villain limps
folds, folds, folds, folds,
Hero($210ish) in SB holds A9 raises to $15
BB calls
UTG folds
Villain calls.

Flop(pot $46)
755:heart
Heros bets $25, BB folds, Villain raises to $100
Hero has $160-170 left and ???

I don't think a 5 in his range because he would "slowed played" it(he has been doing that every time). His pre-flop calling range is pretty much any 2 cards.
He just showed a bluff not too long ago. I think he either has a 7 or air in this spot, maybe a small pp(not too likely since he raised a few times to pp and showed afterwards) If I shove here, I am shoving for value.
Obviously, I don't have a made hand? Fold or shove?

My hand's equity against random 58.5%
My hand's equity against a random 7 about 25%

Note: I don't play 1/2 often at all. I usually play 2/5 and 5/10. I haven't really played poker for a while. Due to going back to school, and not being able to find a good job in the last few months I started playing live poker again. Since I don't have a bankroll, I thought about building my bankroll up at 1/2. My winrate at 2/5 is about $50 per hands over 400 hours. I use to play .5/1 online on stars a few years ago and I was a small winner over 100k hands. Against anyone else on this table, this is an instant fold...(However, I don't think this guy thinks much about his play at all)

Last edited by gazeintothefuture; 02-09-2011 at 05:26 PM.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 05:12 PM
just fold and move onto the next hand, you can find a way better spot to make a move on this guy
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 05:17 PM
Honestly, I know this aint PC Land, but you coulda left out "black" and "ghetto". Or at least not used them both in the same sentence. But ur prolly nerdy white boy so I guess u get a pass.

Not a fan of ur pfr.

Flop: just fold. oesds have 45% equity and thats prolly ur best case scenario.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 05:24 PM
I limp preflop. Playing a sucky A OOP against what sounds like what will be at least 2 players is not a good time, IMO. I'd be more for raising if we were in position.

Fairly good flop to lead, I suppose, but I'm done with it after that. Sounds like we'll easily be able to get this guy's money if we're patient; why are we attempting to do that with A high (which is even a huge dog to any pair here)?
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeThomasHowl
Honestly, I know this aint PC Land, but you coulda left out "black" and "ghetto". Or at least not used them both in the same sentence. But ur prolly nerdy white boy so I guess u get a pass.

Not a fan of ur pfr.

Flop: just fold. oesds have 45% equity and thats prolly ur best case scenario.
LOL, I am not a nerdy white boy. I just want to give an valid description of appearance etc., which I usually do when I post live hands. Young, mid-age, old, White, Asian, Hispanic, Black, etc... I don't have a problem against anyone.

I usually don't even play A9s, ATo UTG, UTG+1 etc. However, the 2 limper would raised with anything better(I have been playing with them for about 5 hours, I think they'd definitely raised with 77+, AT+, any broad way cards). I have seen villain raise with A5o before. I agree that raising with A9s oop in full ring games is generally bad.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeTilt68
just fold and move onto the next hand, you can find a way better spot to make a move on this guy
He said he's going leave in a few hands. He already racked up, etc...
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 05:45 PM
For the record, given that stereotypes, while socially inappropriate, are useful for reads, I like to give wide birth to descriptions of players. As above.

Anything senselessly derogatory or overtly insulting or racist, I will come down hard on. Racism is not tolerated here.

I hate your PFR.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtSF
For the record, given that stereotypes, while socially inappropriate, are useful for reads, I like to give wide birth to descriptions of players. As above.

Anything senselessly derogatory or overtly insulting or racist, I will come down hard on. Racism is not tolerated here.

I hate your PFR.
As I mentioned before, I was merely describing the person.

I usually don't even play A9s, ATo UTG, UTG+1 etc. I over limp with hands like A9s, and raise it in late position. However, the 2 limper would raised with anything better(I have been playing with them for about 5 hours, I think they'd definitely raised with 77+, AT+, any broad way cards). I have seen villain raise with A5o before. I agree that raising with A9s oop in full ring games is generally bad. However, I thought A9s crushes the first 2 limpers' limping range. When BB calls, if an A came on the flop, then I'd b/f flop, c/f turn.

BTW, I played 2/5 with you(if you look like the guy in the picture) at Bogarta before
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 05:59 PM
I am the guy in the picture, but I've never played at Borgata.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 06:03 PM
Looks like a trivial fold. I don't see a shove for value - he could have a hand he is "bluffing with" that is better than yours that will call.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtSF
I am the guy in the picture, but I've never played at Borgata.
Hmm... I have seen someone looks almost exactly like you.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 06:08 PM
Op discription is meh at best.

Preflop raise is terrible.

Rule #1 vs donks, don't make life easy for them by bloating the pot oop. You want to play your big pots vs this villain in position. Especially since he is a spewtard.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSkip
Looks like a trivial fold. I don't see a shove for value - he could have a hand he is "bluffing with" that is better than yours that will call.
True, but I crush his pre-flop limping range. I think he's the type of player whom raises with any A, painted cards, etc. So far, he has limp over 50% of his hands, and called with just about every time. A9 is crushes his bluffing range.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks
Op discription is meh at best.

Preflop raise is terrible.

Rule #1 vs donks, don't make life easy for them by bloating the pot oop. You want to play your big pots vs this villain in position. Especially since he is a spewtard.
I agree with you. But would you raise with AQ/AJ here? My A9s in this situation against those 2 limper is about the same as AQ/AJ. I think 95% of the time my PFR here is terrible, I thought this situation was an exception. Maybe I am wrong.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 06:41 PM
Thanks for the feed-backs. I thought he'd do this with any 2 random cards. Since he's about to leave, I decide to shove for value. He had Q7o, I was 2 1/2 to 1 underdog, and I didn't get there.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 07:10 PM
Easy fold.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtSF
Anything senselessly derogatory or overtly insulting or racist, we will come down hard on. Racism is not tolerated here.
FYP.

While I'm not thrilled with the raise pf, the shove on the flop was a pure form of spew.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazeintothefuture
Thanks for the feed-backs. I thought he'd do this with any 2 random cards. Since he's about to leave, I decide to shove for value. He had Q7o, I was 2 1/2 to 1 underdog, and I didn't get there.
Wow, shove for value? Is this a level?
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks
Wow, shove for value? Is this a level?
Not exactly, I just thought he'd do this with any 2 random cards. And I was ahead of 2 random cards. So I thought it was +EV at the time.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-09-2011 , 09:41 PM
Back to the hand, I think it was a little spewy afterward.

Once again, I am not trying to offend anyone

1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-10-2011 , 09:27 AM
Suffice to say you played this hand really badly, perhaps because you were on tilt from losing the previous big pot or just desperate to get the chedda from the bad player before he left. You need to adjust to gamble with the donks, not become a donk yourself.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-10-2011 , 01:00 PM
Well, I thought he'd do that with any 2 cards. I think my pfr(as in raise with suited ace oop) is somewhat bad, but it was okay on that spot. I thought he'd do that with any 2 random cards, that's why I shoved. Obviously, against 2 random card my hand is +EV. The questions was if my card is good against his range. I thought he's about the leave, maybe he wants to pull a random bluff with any random cards. He "bluffed" in 2 other people after someone who is all-in when there's no side pot with no pair no draw previously. If u put into poker stove, Ac9c is has 58% equity against a random hand. I mean, I have a very good win-rate at 2/5 over 400+ hours simple(about $50/hour). However, I do think it was somewhat spewy.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-10-2011 , 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazeintothefuture
Well, I thought he'd do that with any 2 cards. I think my pfr(as in raise with suited ace oop) is somewhat bad, but it was okay on that spot. I thought he'd do that with any 2 random cards, that's why I shoved. Obviously, against 2 random card my hand is +EV. The questions was if my card is good against his range. I thought he's about the leave, maybe he wants to pull a random bluff with any random cards. He "bluffed" in 2 other people after someone who is all-in when there's no side pot with no pair no draw previously. If u put into poker stove, Ac9c is has 58% equity against a random hand. I mean, I have a very good win-rate at 2/5 over 400+ hours simple(about $50/hour). However, I do think it was somewhat spewy.
It was spewy. What you said is correct about your hand versus two random cards, but in my experience, I have found those racking up to leave to play mostly straight forward (although often still badly).
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-10-2011 , 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSkip
It was spewy. What you said is correct about your hand versus two random cards, but in my experience, I have found those racking up to leave to play mostly straight forward (although often still badly).
Well, I just don't think this guy thinks much at all. He did call my $15 pfr with Q7o, and raised to $100 after a c-bet with a pair of 7s. Even after the shove, I had about 28% equity after I saw his hand. I seriously thought he would have done that with any 2 cards. I usually find people who post Live lSNL always say be patient, etc. I always think I should do whatever is +EV and increase my win-rate(BB/100 hands or hourly rate). Is it playing lower stake(anything up to 5/10 maybe even 10/20 live, and up to 1/2 online) about playing your hand against opponent's range, and higher stakes playing your perceived range against your opponent's range? I would obviously never do that against 98% of the ppl, and definitely not anyone else at that table.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote
02-10-2011 , 01:40 PM
given your read:
middle-age black guy(very scummy/ghetto looking, no offense).
This guy is not shoving a $100 bet out there without some kind of hand.
Fold.
1/2 Live Facing flop raise from an ulber donk Quote

      
m