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1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs 1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs

05-18-2010 , 02:26 PM
I've been at the table for an hour and I built my stack up to 376. Only villain in hand is laggy with over 400 in his stack.

I'm in the cutoff with AK of hearts and it gets folded to me. I make it 8 and the BB calls.

The flop is K 2 8

bb checks and I bet 12
the BB raises to 36. I had seen him do this with middle pair previously so I call.

The Turn is the 9

villain leads for 80.

With the nut flush draw I want to call or raise. Folding is possible but that lead seems too strong for a set.

Obviously I'm not getting the right odds to hit upfront, but if I hit a heart on the river and know I'll get paid off is it worth calling?
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 02:28 PM
call... keep his garbage hands in plus you have have outs if you are beat anyway
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 04:17 PM
call seems good here
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by subs
call... keep his garbage hands in plus you have have outs if you are beat anyway
My thoughts exactly

So villain is polarized here, how do we reconcile that with our river play? If we don't hit, are we folding to a river barrel?
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 04:27 PM
meh gateswi... live reads come in handy in these spots (lol livereadaments)
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 04:49 PM
just call and call about any river (raise hearts ldo), people are always trying to outplay each other live imo. Seen some pretty stupid stack offs by live players, and AKs with top pair top kick wouldnt be one of them.
Especially if your read says that the turn bet is too big to be a set.
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 04:58 PM
Just call here, you don't want to raise then have him come over the top, you still have only one pair and a draw so you don't want to do a Phil Hellmuth and get stacked like he did on PAD to Peat. I think you are ahead right now but I have been wrong in the past.
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 05:30 PM
Never raise the turn.
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 07:05 PM
Nothing wrong with raising the turn. Pot is $248; we have one-third of our chips in the pot. We aren't folding the river so might as well get the chips in when our villain is pushing. Re-shove is $252 pot-size; we get called by KQ, worse heart draws, and free-rolling vs all other AKs.
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 08:36 PM
Call turn,call river. And value bet yourself I'd checked to..
Shoving here will just allow weaker kings to fold..
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 09:02 PM
If you don't think he has a set - what does he have? If he's raising with a flush draw, he's drawing dead. He has 3 outs with any worse K. The only hand he's ahead with is some sort of 2 pair, or a surprise set. You still have heart outs against both.

I like the shove option mentioned above. I think that, in this situation, it makes a lot of sense.

Lee
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRunkle
Nothing wrong with raising the turn. Pot is $248; we have one-third of our chips in the pot. We aren't folding the river so might as well get the chips in when our villain is pushing. Re-shove is $252 pot-size; we get called by KQ, worse heart draws, and free-rolling vs all other AKs.
I don't like shoving here.... seems pretty tough to get called by worse. Villain is prob not c/ring the flop with a backdoor draw, so hearts is unlikely (even though it would be a bad call anyways). I don't think villain is going broke with KQ/QJ/Q10 here even though he is getting 2to1. I think shoving the turn would be better done as a semi-bluff if you had some sort of combo draw.

The re-shove for value is pot sized and allows weaker Ks to fold here. Live players love to overplay their TPs when they think someone was trying to steal their blind from the CO.

I call and if he checks the rvr I ship, regardless if its a heart and pray he calls with his QJ or w/e. If he jams the rvr I probably fold and feel pretty decent about it
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t77
Call turn,call river. And value bet yourself I'd checked to..
Shoving here will just allow weaker kings to fold..
+1
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 09:24 PM
unless he is a complete spew tard i don't see live players bet calling worse here on the turn. if it is some random at 100 bets deep i think it is OK to just slam the turn since no one will fold K3o to a raise
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 09:29 PM
If we call the turn we will have $276 behind in a $200 pot and villian covers.

Are we going to fold non heart rivers? What about ace and king rivers? What about rivers that pair the board and give us two pair, top kicker?

When I call the turn I don't see a river I would be able to fold on so I want to play for stacks.

I min raise $80 and call a shove. I don't think I can fold TPTK on this board and don't want the villian to be able to fold to an ace, king or heart scare river. $276 behind is too much for a villian to call a heart river unless he has a flush or with a king if he has a smaller kicker so I want to inflate now.

But I also probably pay off sets too often so I might be totally wrong here.
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 10:24 PM
lets call the turn


what is river card and ensuing action?
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 10:30 PM
love calling the turn,

if we miss our f draw and just have top pair top kicker and he checks river, i lead out for value and try to get him to call with a garbage hand.

if he donks into us on the river im calling still.
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-18-2010 , 10:38 PM
Call turn, re-evaluate on river depending what he does and what river comes (besides non-heart).

The flop is really dry and after we call on the turn, we're basically turning our hand face-up (unless we can flat turns with 888/999/KKK) and him shoving in the river to the top of our range is really strong and we have to consider if villain thinks he can get us to fold a hand like AK/AA/possiblyQQ to a big shove on river to call with our hand.
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-19-2010 , 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRunkle
Nothing wrong with raising the turn. Pot is $248; we have one-third of our chips in the pot. We aren't folding the river so might as well get the chips in when our villain is pushing. Re-shove is $252 pot-size; we get called by KQ, worse heart draws, and free-rolling vs all other AKs.
Raising the turn is not a good play at all. We are getting all better hands to call and most worse hands to fold. We do have a freeroll against AK, but that's about it. What heart draws are c/ring that flop? KQ is almost never calling a turn shove, but if we flat we can extract another bet on the river.

Just flat turn and flat river, as other posters have suggested.
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-19-2010 , 03:43 AM
easy call. position is beautiful isn't it?
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-19-2010 , 05:58 AM
[ ] deepstacked
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-19-2010 , 06:55 AM
I agree with what everyone has said calling here is by the best line and calling again OTR or betting for value if heart hits.
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-19-2010 , 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoosterCAD
I agree with what everyone has said calling here is by the best line and calling again OTR or betting for value if heart hits.
+1
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-19-2010 , 10:46 AM
Have u seen villian make any other calls from the blinds with weak holdings? If so how has he played them? I think this is definatly a case of WAWB, but if villian is laggy then I'm never folding here and probably just calling turn and calling/shoving river. The only bad river cards are nonheart Q's and J's IMO.
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote
05-19-2010 , 12:06 PM
if you think his range is some air or middle pair type hands and nuts then ya there is not much point in raising the turn.

though there are some players that will take this line with like AT-AQ and might call a turn push, but that would require a pretty solid read and there is no need to risk blowing those hands out on the turn.

against alot of 1/2 players though villians line is super strong IMO though.
1/2 live deep stacked.  Tough decision with AKs Quote

      
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