1/2 $300max game 3am. H just moved to a move table about 30 minutes ago and it's like the players are gremlins who all ate after midnight. Its a fun rowdy game that is insane (in a good way). Nobody folds. Last hand H was involved opened TT to $15 got 4 callers (7 handed at the time). Flop 885ss. Hero cbets gets 3 callers. Hand checks down no spade coming but rest of hand 885 AQ. Hero somehow wins hand. Previous to that H has top-2 with AQ one of the gremlins called pot sized bet on river with a busted straight draw K high.

OTTH:

Hero HJ (MAWG) $1500 covers table by a ton. V1 SB 30's WG $500. Only seemingly decent player. V2 Button $260 30's WG just moved to table, first hand no read. Rest gremlins with stacks around $100-$200.

3 gremlins limp. Hero makes it $20 with KQdd. 1 fold. Everybody else calls.

Flop: $120. 9d5d4x. Checks to hero who makes it $100. V2 jams $240. V1 folds. Hero calls. Rest fold.

Is there a better way to play this? Check flop and just realize equity is one option I considered. If we had Adxd would we play it differently?

Weird spot. Depends how you want to be perceived. Playing it like you did should guarantee some action for youthe rest of the night. But it is also really high variance especially without the ace high draw. I think you can also check there a lot and have it be slightly higher EV vs three Vs, one of which likely hit that board hard. And there is always the 1/4 to 1/3 range bet you could float.

3am Id probably be gambling and betting. But checking and seeing the cards is probably the better play multiway.

3 limp-callers have wide ranges. I like the flop bet. You'll take it down with the bet sometimes. When you get called, you've got a disguised hand, plenty of equity, and position. They called a pot-sized bet with king high! Against the gremlins, I would suspect that diamonds are almost always good and that a K or Q would be good some of the time. I'd bet ATs on the flop as well.

I don't think there is a better way per se but for sure you could play it more conservative. In this spot you have a big hand so as long as you're not up against a set you're good.

I think I know what you're thinking: "Surely, in a game with THESE idiots, I can wait for a better spot to get it in than a coinflip, right?"

And I get that. But the thing to keep in mind is that it's NOT just a coinflip, because you have the $120 dead in dead money already out there.

I mean yeah, if you wait long enough, you can get them to commit drawing dead. But you don't have *forever*, you have right now, and right now, you have two overs and a flush draw with 60 Big Blinds in dead money sitting in the middle. This is a situation you can *never* pass up, *no one's* edge is good enough to wait for a better spot.

Calling that dead money is slightly inaccurate. This isnt a preflop situation where cold calls are usually weak. This isnt a two way or three way pot. It is almost as if your chances of being check-raised increase exponentially with each additional player added in a multiway pot. In this situation you are likely a 64/36 dog or worse after being check raised. If he has AdXd or a set now you are playing for his stack in a highly negative EV spot.

There is a pretty good video out there where one of the best online players in the worlds hands are analyzed. What they found is he checks his entire range close to 100% of the time where he does not have position in a multiway pot. Even if he is the preflop raiser. Similar to the three Vs in this hand.

There were ultimately 5 callers on the flop. Sorry for confusion.

Results. V had A2dd and and won.

That’s when you need to spike a Queen, man.

Likely not but that is because with this game description all the hands that dominate you are going all in on the flop and you are calling regardless unless they show you the cards to prove you shouldn't. If you are always going all in when behind better you also do so when ahead.

I think any time we don't have a pair on the Flop in a spot like this I back off the gas and hope to fall into a winner as cheaply as possible .. but I'm not backing down from reasonable action on the Flop either.

There are literally no good cards for us except the non-suited K/Q (and Ad) and I'm still playing a flush 'by ear' with a sigh call, not aggressive betting. I've been through this enough in a live setting that it's just not good for our stack as much as we'd think it should be. GL


PS .. and yes, there are better spots for our chips to be utilized in, hopefully HU or 3-ways.

I'm still not sure of the right play here notwithstanding larry's good advice. Unless the $500 stack got involved, there are not that many combos I am scared of. 7 combos Adxd and set combos. Unfortunately I ran into one. It was just such a weird spot raising 10x and getting a family pot.

I don't think that's correct for live play. Top online players will face c/r bluffs much more frequently so they can get blown off their equity if they're betting too frequently. Plus, other online players will actually notice that he checks both his strong and weak hands oop position multiway. I'm sure he has many c/r bluffs on the flop as well. Position is everything though.

with 5 callers to the flop, why even bet? I would c/f there, or cbet much less if you think everyone's a fit or fold player. Once we see that flop we have to know in our minds that one cbet isn't taking it down, which is why I wouldn't be betting vs the whole table with only 2 over cards.

Again if this is heads up or even a three way pot I would be much more inclined to bet. Heads up I would bet it 100% of the time. But if I learned one thing at small stakes live it is this. Your money is made on multiway hands by having the nuts. Not by semi bluffing with draws or calling bets with the 5th nuts. Every time I talk myself into an aggressive play vs 3 or more opponents I’m increasing variance and likely also lowering EV in that particular hand.

But what I alluded to before is the second thing that really matters at ethese stakes. Your image. Small stakes players are likely to have about three player profiles to put you in. Tight. Loose and aggressive. Or Complete idiot. That is about it. And in general the more you fit into one of the last two categories image wise, the more you will get paid off when you make a hand. So making the play he made, while not being the best EVplay in this hand, may be the highest EV play for a session.

I just think there are situations where you want to bet the flop OOP in a multiway pot in LLSNL that a top online pro might not bet.

Ex. You raise KK from the SB and get 4 callers. The Flop is AK9 with 2 spades.

I think the hand in this thread could be bet or checked depending on a lot of variables....but people calling pot-sized bets on the river with K-high makes me want to put money in the pot with decent equity.