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03-19-2012 , 11:48 AM
This is long-winded but I’d appreciate input on all actions. Thanks in advance.

Thursday night table had a combination of TP/LP players, nothing difficult to handle, little or no bluffing. Within the hour a $2-$5 player lost $1k at a nearby table and took a seat in this game, buying in for $200. The dynamic has changed.

V1 (BB ~$325) – Fit or fold who raises top hands, c-bets strong, likely has not bluffed during the session, about 4 hours in. White male, 50’s, talkative and congenial, may have had 1 drink. He is a reg who knows V2 and quite a few others in the room.

Hero (UTG $403) – White male, mid-50’s, conservative image, drinking water / coffee, very quiet, playing a solid game seeing ~20% flops, raising PF ~3/5 of the time, and made a successful 3-bet bluff OTF. I may be perceived as nitty and passive by the new $2-$5er. Bought in for $200 and built stack by max-valuing AK vs. AQ, and flush over flush.

V2 – (MP1 ~$525) – White male, ~50, been drinking a lot of beer, on the loud side yet charismatic and comical. He knows everyone, has an image of a losing player, not unskilled but simply craves too much action. Built stack by hitting cards and is running well. Sees all flops, blind raises most, limp/calls PF raises >90% of the time. He is constantly talking.

Hero raises KsKc to $13. I had been testing the open raise levels settling in on $13-$14 with strong hands. There are 5 callers including V2 and V1. The other 3 callers do not factor into decision-making.

Flop ($73) is Ac-Ad-Ts.

V1 leads for $20. I read this as 99-JJ, with TT very unlikely, testing the waters w/the other 2 pairs. Normally this player would lead stronger if they indeed hit, i.e. Ax. Hero decides to call with others behind including the lag V2. My hand was blocking draws and I could easily fold to a raise by any opponent except V2. Thoughts on the action?

V2 raises to $60 (pot now $173) and others fold. V1 took a very, very long time before mucking. I did not think V2 had any big aces in his range, frankly thought there were more Tx hands, although smaller Aces (A9-) had to be considered. Options are:
1) Fold - seems on the weak side based on what I had seen from this opponent. I viewed this as a probe bet to see if I had an Ace, applying pressure on big pair hands. V had been drinking but was totally coherent, read the boards perfectly, and did possess skills.
2) Call – felt that this leaves me very vulnerable being oop. How would I play the turn being the first to act?
3) Re-Raise – this is the option I leaned toward for a couple of reasons, extracting additional value as this type of opponent would call a small r-r w/KT, QT, JT chasing the gutter with a pr. Obviously I am blocking and reducing their equity. Additionally, a r-r could represent trips.

While weighing my options, the opponent starts talking something to the effect … “Well I either have an A or a T, so you have to decide if your QQ is good or not. I know you have QQ.” I look him over, get nothing from physical tells, nonetheless sensing that his comment points more toward Tx rather than Ax.

I take quite a while to plan my action on this and the next street, ultimately re-raising to $120. Normally I don’t like the min-raise but thought it might work on this type of “chaser”, dragging him along with a hand that is behind. If he 4-bet, there would be no doubt he held Ax and I could fold, not happy about pouring 1/3 of stack yet still holding on to 2/3 on a table that held promise. Thoughts on the action?

Villain takes quite awhile himself, making me feel that I am indeed ahead. I think he may fold, but he ultimately calls.

Turn ($333) is Jh. I had planned to check-call the turn, hoping the V would perceive the check as weak and keep the pressure on. I thought if I shoved, Tx is always folding and the only way to extract incremental value is a check, especially since he had so little equity.

I may have had a brain freeze here, perhaps over-thinking the line I took. The V took about 45 seconds and quietly put me AI. Pot is now $603, calling would imply my minimum equity to be ~31%.

Hero?
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03-19-2012 , 11:53 AM
Min raise is bad. Considering how bad V2 is, this may be a fold OTF and play him in another hand.
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03-19-2012 , 12:11 PM
I like your original call on the flop against the donk bet, but I really don't like the min-raise. I mostly fold, but if your opponent is aggressive enough that there are going to be a lot of bluffs in his range then why not just call? I just don't see the reason for your raise. You're not going to get Ax to fold and are you really getting value from Tx?

As played, unless I knew he was a total spew monkey I'm folding the turn.
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03-19-2012 , 12:22 PM
When you raise with KK and get 5 callers and the flop comes with 2 aces, someone is going to have an ace 90 percent of the time. When there is a flop raise that number just shot up to 100 percent. I dont know what you are thinking about here pitch the hand on the flop without thinking twice. You are creating a huge pot with a mediocre hand in this situation. This dude so obviously has an ace. It really couldnt be any more obvious.
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03-19-2012 , 12:31 PM
Grunch

No. No. No. No. No.
Fold flop way too many ppl to act behind you. Fold flop again when he raises. Fold turn. You're given 3 chances to fold. Otf you can't tell us whether you're bluffing or not because you don't know.
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03-19-2012 , 12:33 PM
this hand is a disaster
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03-19-2012 , 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SABR42
this hand is a disaster
Agreed, toss those Kowboys.
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03-19-2012 , 12:39 PM
On this flop versus action your hand should be folded
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03-19-2012 , 01:24 PM
I think its pretty easy to assume that when you go to the flop 5-6 way someone has an ace.
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03-19-2012 , 01:30 PM
The last thing we want with a big pair in a deepish game is to go 6 way to the flop, IMO. I'd much rather limp/reraise here, especially if there are some shorter stacks that might commit preflop with all the dead money. Plus we have a raise/calling drunk in the game; I wait for him to raise it and then reraise half my stack so I can play postflop easily with a face up hand (or perhaps even shove if I think there's a chance he might want to gamble).

I fold the flop. An EP player is betting into the world and we're in terrible position with far too many potential raisers behind us. I quietly fold and move on to the next hand.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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03-19-2012 , 01:34 PM
I’m not surprised by the replies, as I would have posted similar. This hand was a read-dependent play, combining polarized player images (super agg vs. perceived passive), that has occurred 3 times in the few years I have played. I was curious to see if others had encountered plays like this, specifically 50+ y/o conservative-looking types.

The rest of the time the hand should be played in a vacuum. Frankly if V1 in the BB leads for >1/2 pot, I’m gone.

Flop 3-bet min-raise was really contradictory - betting for thin value, but turning my hand into a bluff all at once (?????). It obviously served no purpose.

Anyway, I trusted my read and called. Opponent said “you’re (hand) good”. The river bricked and I asked if he had a T, which he nodded and showed while mucking the other card.

Thanks for the input.
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03-20-2012 , 12:31 AM
BBV is that away
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03-20-2012 , 08:38 AM
So you played a hand where you and only you had a super read on your opponent but you wanted advice from people who didn't have your read? What was the point of posting this hand?
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03-20-2012 , 09:15 AM
^
As stated, "I was curious to see if others had encountered plays like this, specifically 50+ y/o conservative-looking types."

Purely an image question geared toward the older players who seem to get pigeon-holed as "tight" and/or "weak", facing an opponent who is the complete antithesis.
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03-20-2012 , 09:45 AM
Yea i have seen villains like this he seems at least competent and he most likely thought i can out play this small stakes players etc
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