This hand took place at about 3am at the Venetian.

Villain: Appears to be late 20s and competent. Hasn't gotten out of line. Hasn't played too many hands but is aggressive when in the hand. I'd consider him TAG. He has had a few Coffee and Baileys.

Hero: Feel like I have a fairly loose image at this table but winning image. Cracked a guys Aces in a 3 bet pot with 6h7h for a double up. Been pretty active raising limpers and taking pots with cbets. Been showing down big hands.

OTTH

1/2 NL

CO Hero ($560)
Button Villain ($370ish)

Hero Dealt KK

EP Limps, folds to Hero, Hero Raises $12, Button SB and EP limper call.

standard table open raise was about $8 or so. I was consistently raising limps in the $10-$12 range so this felt standard.

Flop ($50) 10 , 5 , 5

SB check, EP check, Hero bet $25, Button calls, SB and EP fold.

No draws on this relatively dry flop so sized bet a little small looking for value from pair of 10s, pocket pairs, and overcards. Villian slightly hesitates before making a decision. Sort of felt like he was strong and considering raising but just decided to call.

Turn ($100) 6

Hero bets $50, Button raises to $125, Hero calls.

This card doesn't seem to change much. Again Hero bets half pot looking for value from pair of 10s and smaller pocket pairs, and maybe overcards opponent decided to float with.

When button raises, alarms go off. When this happens, I put him value raising A10, A5, pocket 10s (discounted as I feel he 3 bets this preflop), turned set of 6s, and maybe some type of 57, 56, 54 hand (seems very unlikely though with his style), and turning pocket 9s, 8s, and 7s and maybe some type of K10,q10,j10, 10-9, AJ hand into a bluff/or maybe for value thinking he's ahead (doesn't seem likely though, might be reaching). I decide to call.

River ($350) A


Hero checks, Button shoves all in $200, Hero?

So A10 now beats me and I am struggling to try and figure out what I beat. Typing it all out, it feels like I misplayed the turn and probably sized bets poorly. What do you guys think about the river decision, turn play, and hand? Thanks.

ck-fold looks good and it has nothing to do with the river - it's a brick.
I probably bet even less otf and ott but what you did is just fine.

If it has nothing to do with the river, shouldn't we fold on the turn?

Also why do you like betting less than 1/2 pot?

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The turn is not a good spot for villain to bluff. As you say, the card does not change the board. If villain is competent we can probably eliminate bluffs from his range in this spot. I also think he would flat a T. His range is likely medium pairs (x/r turns them into bluffs basically), big pairs, and 5s. If we think he always 3-bets TT+, we can narrow his range to something like {99-55,A5s,75s,65s,54s,65o} assuming he is somewhat tight. We have 53% equity against this range.

However, if he widens his range on the button it might be more like {99-55,A5s,K5s,75s,65s,53s+,A5o,75o,65o,54o} against which we have 35% equity. It's even worse if we expect villain will flat 66-99 most of the time.

The only hands we beat that he's especially likely to raise on the turn are JJ and QQ, which we don't expect him to flat with. Possibly he has 66-99 but raising over a flop and turn bet with these hands is overplaying them--he's basically turning his hand into a bluff with these hands, but some players overplay pocket pairs on low paired boards like this so it's possible.

All this said, I think you have to fold the turn unless you think this villain would play hands like AT and JT like this (I very much doubt it--if he's competent he wants a cheap showdown with these).

As played, fold the river. It's way more likely he has a 5 than a pair you beat or a T, and one of the most likely T hands (AT) now beats us. Even though we only need to be good 27% of the time, I really don't think we are.

One more thing--I'd raise more pre-flop if you can get away with it.

Yes

Thanks everyone. I did fold the river so I believe I played that correctly as it doesn't seem like there is much I beat at that point. I agree now that folding to the turn raise would have been best as I agree that a pair of 10s will be looking for a cheap showdown and probably wouldn't raise turn, he has a lot of 5s in his range and all I really beat is 77-99 overplayed/turned into a bluff.

Is there any merit in checking the turn to him or do you guys think the turn bet was fine? It's hard to imagine getting more than 2 streets of value from anything I beat, and I can c/c turn evaluate river instead of having to give it up right there on the turn.

Grunching:

Your flop and turn sizing look good. No reason to go for more given lack of draws, and you do want action from small/mid pp's.

Arguably, you could have bet more pre. Putting closer to 10% of effective stacks in would have made hand much easier to play, but you might have folded everyone out. Put in the most you think you can 1-2 callers with. Unfortunately, that may have been what you did at your Venetian 1/2 table.

AP, fold. There isn't much you beat. It could be an elaborate bluff, encouraged by the river scare card. Still I don't think enough 1/2 players do this ever to make it worth calling. Yeah, it'll be a bluff sometimes but not often enough.
You will need a stronger read on villain to make this call at this table.

A check raise would have been different, but an IP baby raise on the turn is frequently enough a freeze play. You might look to find some bet-folds with strong hands, but not KK, not yet no way.

I like being able to bet more of my range on many static boards against softer players, so I look to counter that frequency with smaller sizing when oop, standard enough. It's a natural action from EP facing a LP call, but it works pretty well in wide range spots like this one as well where you have the stronger range (Both players have 5x, Tx, but hero should have more TT+ and better Ahighs).

Betting the turn is probably preferable against most opponents. You shouldn't assume villain has a 5. There are lots of Ts he could have. It's not until he raises the turn that we suspect he very possibly has a 5.

But checking is okay if villain is LAGGY and you think you might induce a bluff. Otherwise I like betting as you get value from worse hands (Ts, maybe 66-99). If it gets checked behind, you can fire any river, though you might find yourself in a tricky spot if villain raises the river (particularly on an Ace river).

Hand would have been played perfectly if you b/f the turn. You used appropriate sizing to get 3 streets of value from worse. Unfortunately, he has a better hand this time. It happens.

Can you explain what you mean by freeze play? Would it sort of be an attempt by villain to raise for information? Where opponent thinks his raise might possibly fold out a better hand, while getting re-raised would mean he could fold, and if called, he could evaluate the river? (bluffing when checked to and folding when led into for a third time)

A freeze play is to raise on the turn in order to prevent future river bets. The idea is the raise slows you down because now you're considering that your opponent may have a monster hand. Someone with AT could theoretically do a freeze play in order to keep you from betting the river with a hand like JJ-AA. It's essentially a pot control technique.

However, I don't think many 1/2 villains are familiar with this concept, but perhaps Amanaplan can elaborate.

So it seems like then Amanaplan would be an advocate of calling the turn raise expecting the villian to check back the river with a worse hand some amount of time when the river bricks. We'll see what he has to say.

Not too much else to add really, it's just a positional thing... much closer to a turn fold facing a ck-r and closer to a call in this scenario/this size along with some hands like JJ/QQ which could potentially be looking for real value, and some other 1pair hands that are taking an awkward line to deny equity to something you might be barreling small like AK/AQ.
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What I want to know is how many live 1/2 players are even aware of the freeze play. It's a rather advanced move and not used that often I would think. It seems very unlikely villain would not 3-bet JJ-QQ OTB facing a CO raise, given he's described as TAG. What are the chances he raises the turn with a T?