Played at the Meadows in PA

I am in the small blind with KK. (approx stack 112)
1st position open raises to $6. (110)
2nd position calls (130)
4th position calls (200)
6th and dealer spot call also (150 and 100 respectively)
I raise to $32 trying to iso.
1st calls 2nd calls and 4th call

mindset going to the flop is just jam any non ace flop
3 way to the Flop Q23 rainbow - so i shove for $84
1st position calls with AQ and 4th shows up with 33.


brick brick

is there any other line I can take in this hand to avoid being stacked?

would you make that call with 33 preflop just because of pot odds

thanks for the input

Nothing you can do given your stack size.

I think you played it fine. This is 1/2. People call too much. The guy with 33 is not getting proper set mining odds I don't think.

This is what you want though - people putting in lots of money when they're behind. sometimes they suck out. If you are properly bankrolled for the games you play you should not be affected by this

thanks for the input, i was just wondering if by UTG calling does that sway position 4's decision to call preflop or do you think that players are that bad or just set mine that much they call there no matter what?

Some villains won't lay down a PP pre for any reason other than a shove. Not much you can do there (I probably lay down the A-Q pre but I'm a nit).

no

Tom I'm pretty new to live play so take this with a grain of salt. Typically when I'm OOP i'm definitely trying to raise a little bigger then normal to compensate for your positional disadvantage (especially in a 5 way pot). It's already a 10bb pot, and you're just at about 56bb. I think you could have probably shoved pre, and possibly had a better result. Even just picking up the dead money in that spot is going to be highly profitable.

You are absolutely correct,
Op re-raised pre flop to $32 from a $118 stack. So, basically he raised 27% of his stack. The fish with pocket 33 called 27% of the effective stack. He, the fish, cannot possibly profit in the long run calling that much trying to flop a set. Any call above 10% of effective stacks by a small pair is a -EV if he's trying to setmine. He just got lucky this time. Our friend cannot do nothing with his remaining stack. $80 left, he's got to move in. There is no way out.

Che

what does everyone think about the bet sizing pre? i find that live players are very likely to call a reraise pre in multi-way situations like this. once the first guy calls, everyone else tags along. given this, i would be inclined to make it more difficult for players already in for 6 to call. $40-45 seems reasonable here

I like the $32. Personally, I want A-Q calling me in a pot where I can get 25-30% of my stack in against them preflop. A-Q will stack off if they hit the Q, and 33 is just burning money with the call, and just happened to get lucky this time.

Standard. wud hv played da same

Not that you wanted the 33 to fold pre-flop, but he might have if you’d raised more than you did.

I’m putting in a larger raise ($50-$60) pre-flop to see if I can’t limit it to just one or two nimrods coming along for the ride. For that matter, with short stacks all around I’ll simply shove a decent amount of the time here since the pot is already big enough to claim and I’m likely enough to get a caller or two in any event.

hmm. i think i raise to $40-45 to make a greater variety of flops more playable, particularly A-high flops or wet flops. by betting $32, you are so likely to get called by almost all of the initial callers, like happened here, that KK becomes a b/f or even c/f hand on a lot of flops. i prefer to narrow it down to one or maybe two callers for this reason.

what do people think about this rationale here?

You're already making it go from 6 to 32. Thats enough of a raise. Not his fault that 1/2 fish call everything. He played it fine and got unlucky, BFD. this type of **** goes down every day.

If you make it 45 you're like telling everyone you have KK/AA, unless you have been squeezing a ton - but lets face it its 1/2NL live so you probably havn't.

fair nuf, but i feel like almost everyone calling is pretty predictable with a raise to $32.

i think you would get one, maybe two callers by raising to $40 or 45, despite many players putting you on a huge pair. if four players called 32, one or two would call 40 or 45, which is what you want. and i guess what im really trying to say in response to your post is that this will be the case in most situations like this one. he didn't just get an unlucky high number of callers. i think it was the bet sizing and for live he got a standard number of callers.

this is obviously impossible to prove and somewhat difficult to argue though, so i guess we can say it's up to your judgment of the table dynamics.

I think the $32 is good bet size.

But if I had to make it say $40 or $25 I'd rather take the lower number. Think about it in a "The Fundamental Theorm Of Poker" type way.

Folding on a non-ace flop is just horrible given our stack to pot ratio.

Even if the flop would some something dreadful like JT9 when we are red it would be an easy push.

are you saying we want a lot of callers? if everyone's hands were face up for us, we would see that we are ahead of all of them, but does that mean we want all of them to go to the flop with us? i thought it was always preferable to have one or two opponents with hands like KK

I want my opponents to make mistakes. If we bet super large they will usually correctly fold. If we bet smaller amounts (but obviously not super small) they will often incorrectly call because they are not getting good enough odds vs our KK.