1/2 kk help on turn and river?
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 153
Main villain in hand is older reg in co. Only read I have is I heard him tell the other guy next to him that he never folds an ace. Been playing a couple hours together now. I have been playing pretty tight.
Stacks are about $300 for everyone.
Utg+1 limps I make it $8 in hj. co calls. button calls. limper calls.
Flop is AK10.
checks to me I bet $15. co calls. Others all fold.
Turn 10
I bet $35? Size? He tanks and finally says ok and calls.
River A.
I check. He bets $100. I?
Why such a big river bet? Smells like bluff, no?
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 28
I would make my PF raise a little higher maybe like $12-$18 depending on the table, OTT i would bet around $60 and i fold the river he almost always has an A here.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 36,150
I think your bet sizing seems off.
I don't play 1/2 anymore, but isn't a typical raise more like $10 + BB/limpers? $8 just seems so small, and gets us exactly this: a 5way pot (we'd rather have a similar sized pot but HU/3way due to larger preflop raise, methinks).
Betting only $15 into a $40 pot on the flop seems way off, especially against 4 villains. I'm betting $30 - $40 (towards higher side if flush draw) and hoping someone has enough to start putting a lotta money into the pot with me.
Again on the turn I think I bet a bit more (although I don't think 1/2 PSB is horrible), especially since any A is going to think they're chopping. I'd probably go $50 into this $70 pot as played (but pot should really be much bigger by this time, IMO).
As played, the pot is $140 and villain is betting $100 (about 2/3 of a PSB); it ain't a big bet, it's a perfectly reasonably sized bet. I doubt it's a bluff (what is he calling big a reasonablish bet on the turn with just to bluff the river with?) and I probably fold the river (I think even a lotta villain's may even check behind Tx here).
Overall, I think larger bets had to be made earlier on in this hand to help get the majority of chips in the center when we have this great hand (and the appearance of an unlucky river card doesn't change that).
GcluelessNLnoobG
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,966
I think you have to bet more every step of the way. Ideally you don't want to play KK against 3 players.
I noticed your name. If your playing in ac/philly you can raise to $12-$16 and still get a caller or two. Go ahead and charge the max that you'll get action from.
flopI bet at least $25, and turn like $48-$60. villian dependant
His turn actions seem consistent w/ a legit decision.
Its unlikely he puts you on a 10. You said you were playing tight, tight players don't lead out w/ bottom pair in multiway pots. So he might be thinking about raising here?
At the end of the day you flopped a set and turned a boat, if he went runner runner bigger boat so be it. I think your good, enough of the time to call here.
As an aside was there a flush draw after the turn?
IDK your gonna see him having an A here alot but by the same token its the best bluff/scare card in the deck.
its now less likely that you have an ace, after you check the river he easily could be betting a hand like 10Q 10J 910 for value.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 26,522
Grunch:
Why do you have no reads after a couple of hours on the guy sitting beside you? You should at least know how loose/tight he is PF.
PF raise is way too small for most 1/2 tables. I make it ~$15 here, depending on dynamics.
AP: Flop, we have middle set on a sopping wet board. Pot is ~32 (depending on rake). We *MUST* bet more than half pot here. I bet as close to pot as table dynamics allow. $25 sounds right. Any ace should call, any set, 2-pair should RR, and we can get stacks in. Flopped straight may just call to give you rope, but chances slim and we have outs against it.
AP: Turn, now we have FH. Sweet! Pot is ~$60, since we've bet too small all along. Fix it now. Bet at least $50.
AP: River. Pot is now ~$130. He bets over 2/3 and a lame A makes up most of his range. Fold and kick your own ass for letting him get there. This is not a bluff. He thinks he has best hand. He is usually right.
Post Grunch Edit: Or, "Cliffs: What Gobbeldygeek said."
Last edited by Garick; 02-26-2011 at 03:06 PM.
Reason: Post-Grunch
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 818
I'd bet preflop more, $15+
I'd bet flop more, at least 2/3 pot or more
On the river I hate life and fold, I don't think he's ever bluffing here
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,556
Sweet leaping egads bet more flop, bet more turn! Your bet sizing is very very off, this is a dream spot on the flop+turn not just because you flopped a set but because it almost always connected with villains' range. I make it $25-30 on the flop and bet 90-110% of the pot on the turn.
As played river is a trivial fold, we were getting 90%+ of our value from crappy aces and now they have us beat. What is villain calling twice with on the flop+turn that he's now going to turn into a bluff on this river?
The big bet is because he has the nuts (or close enough for it not to matter) and because in a fish's mind huge hand = bigger bet. Thinking "why so much? he must be bluffing!" at these stakes is a recipe for disaster.