I'm folding. This is AA 90%+ of the time. Nobody who raises pre ~6% of hands and who has yet to even 3-bet is limp cold 5 betting something other than AA with all these people left to act behind him.

Never folding KK preflop is a leak. You just don't do it except in SUPER rare situations like this

+1

This isn't pre 2009 where folding KK ever is -ev. Half the fish have left the pond, and the other half that are still playing aren't stacking off lighter than KK enough of the time in this spot for hero to be calling off 200bb pre here.

Let me also add that in Harrington's books, he said folding KK preflop ever is a mistake. Well this was written 5 years ago.

Lol, well put. I agree 100%

o3l

Nice fold, IMO. (wow, second time today I've recommended folding KK preflop)

AA is the most common hand to limp/reraise, especially at action tables (which looking at preflop this definitely is).

Villain is not expecting folds after seeing a raise, 3bet, a call, and then a 4bet. He's putting in almost half his stack (and thus playing for stacks), and he's playing with 200 BBs. With KK-, he'd have to be concerned at this point that someone else has AA, but he doesn't seem too concerned at all.

ETA: One thing I've disregarded is that it might depend on what type of game you are playing in. My table is made up of 99% poker room regulars, 1% off-the-street noobs. If your table is the other way around, maybe it's possible this doesn't have to be AA.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I could see some fish doing this with QQ. But vast majority of time it's AA or the other KK.

results?

he folded

Oh yeah, forgot he said that in OP.

I am really shocked by how many of you guys are advocating a shove here....i mean huh??? the loose/passive villain who is a station pre and hasnt 3bet once just cold 5bet l/rr'd UTG in a 1/2 nl game and you think he doesnt have AA 100% of the time???? COME ON FELLAS....

I think a lot of you guys are really not giving enough credit to the fact that a guy who is bad and running well has so much potential to completely lose him mind in one hand and dust off his stack.

If you said the guy was a good player then yeah I think it's a good fold.

passive guy, making uber aggressive action, has the nuts close to 100% of the time

even if the guy flashed 87s after OP folded, its still the correct fold. was it wrong when you called a shove pre with AA and the other guy sucked out on you with KK?

dont be results oriented

If you shove here you would have to be good 41% of the time.....

So your equity against ranges are AK AA KK about 47%....

But as most of us agree 400 deep bad players don't shove ak offten...so say he does it 50% of the time...now your equity in 39.44%....

So I go with the fold line...

easy fold

when he raised i thought "**** my life, this is always AA, ****in station 5bet" and i pretty much instafolded. I did not show my cards but in your opinion should i show here?

btw SB commented "not too often do we see a 5bet around here" before he folded. I found this to be hilarious and wanted to share

showing KK is really bad for your image. If someone else 3 bets you in the future, you may level yourself into thinking he's 3 betting you light. Conversely you could fold the best hand when someone 3 bets you light because he knows you can fold. It also makes it so people don't want to play with you if you fold KK preflop faceup. Bad for image. Fold and tell no one.

also go smaller - 35-50, i think, depending on the table

good fold. if he sucks at poker, he has no idea how strong his limp/5! is, thus he's probably not doing it as a bluff. AA/KK only.

why is it that if fish limp AA UTG they get mad action and have a KK behind them, but if I ever do it, we go 6 to the flop unraised?

I like when most ITT say "EZ fold" then we find out we had villain crushed like in this thread here. Sometimes it's fun to be results oriented.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...19/index2.html

I still think this is a shove, because I think it's bad to think that bad players know what they're doing at all. I think villain can easily take this line with JJ, QQ, AK, AQ, KK, AA. Hey, maybe I just like to spew... IDK.

What possible benefit is there in showing your cards here?

@francois8

that spot is so lol different its silly to even think to use it as a justifiable comparison as to why we should go all in with KK here. (and fwiw id still fold there without the read that he mindlessly fires with any piece, and even the OP is wrong in that thread when he reveals the results and says the guy fired top pair on a 4 flush board with no club and if he knew that he would have called in his hand. very different spot then the one he posted and using that as a justification to call would be terrible)

do you realize, while you think its fun to be results oriented, it does nothing for you as a player? if he has only 2 hands here possible, lets say 72o and AA (10% and 90% respectively even though those are crazy numbers) , and we run this 100 times, its mathematically correct to fold every time because we do not know when he has 72o and when he has AA. who gives a ish what he has here, he doesnt have a worse hand than KK enough to consider shoving.

i mean this is the nicest way, poker may not be your forte if you cant grasp this simple concept