1/2, 9 handed, $400 effective with SB, $260 effective with BB. SB is a complete unknown. BB is a TAG reg that is likely a small - medium winner. Hero is a reg and has a TAG image to BB.

OTTH

Hero opens K K $10 HJ, SB calls, as does BB.

Flop ($30): J T 7. SB leads for $8, BB calls, hero raises to $40, SB calls, and BB shoves for $250. Hero?

Fold. And be unhappy about it.

Very bizarre initial flat by v - I'm folding this however. J10, 77 and maybe 10s very much in vs range. Perhaps flatted flop to induce thinking you'll raise behind because it was such a small lead.

Anyhow, we block spades and kq. If v is a regular not sure what he'd be jamming that doesn't have us beat. I fold.

SB bet then calls. BB calls then shoves.

Pretty lol lines from both but with SB still left to act Id fold. If it was HU and I faced this shove.. ehh I dunno I see a lot more 2 pair these days shoving in spots like this and not so many combo/nut flush draws but thats probably more my casino specific.

Fold to a TAG.

Is T9 in his range? QQ? Ace rag FD?

Lousy flop for KK. Needed a red flop with numbers.

fold. the real question is if we should even raise the flop to begin with.

No TAG reg is flatting the initial 8 bucks with value
I'm calling off expecting him to have spades and seems consistent with the action

Why would BB the $8 flat with 2p or a set, knowing how difficult it will be to get stacks in by the river? I'm having a very difficult time putting SB on a hand, but the way he has played it, it seems like spades.

Of course we should. Villain is betting 1/4 pot - likely trying to get cheap turns.

Fold for sure - Weird lines notwithstanding, flop smashes their PF calling ranges. One of them almost for sure has J10, 89, or 77. And your K blocks a decent chunk of the possible flush draws. HU would be a more difficult decision.

This was my line of thinking here as well, very odd for this guy to flat on a wet and fairly connected board and then jam, if he had a set or 2P then he would raise instead of flatting the 8 I would think

Maybe he is getting sneaky with a flopped straight but if we can put enough semi-bluffs in his range here then I think we can call, assuming we discount a chunk of his value hands here like 2P and sets

I would just fold, your equity vs a tag stackoff range here doesnt seem good and SB is still left to act

Hero calls, SB folds, BB has Q 9. Bizarre hand altogether, but I probably shouldve just let it go with SB still to act.

So what's the problem here?

As I was reading the comments, I was leaning to snapping. Yes, sets prob flat the donk- bet, hoping you raise. But there are so many other combo draws that can do the same thing, its probably pretty close.

Puntareffic.

I question the description of villain after he plays this hand this way. A "tag reg" would not be making a move like this.

The problem is that SB is still to act. Maybe it's not the worst call, because it's just one of those really weird lines, and I like using the Doug Polk rule that if someone takes a line that makes no sense, we should lean towards call. It's probably a marginal call with SB still to act.

You clearly do not have much experience in 1/2 then

Dude there are way too many draws, combo draws etc to fold here - you aren’t loving the situation but in my view you can’t fold here.

I was referring to villain if I wasn't clear.

I'm saying you must not have a lot of experience at 1/2 live if you want to reclassify villain from being a TAG reg. TAG reg at 1/2 =/= TAG reg at 2/5 or anywhere else. A small - medium winning TAG reg at 1/2 does not mean the player is good.

The reclassification wasn't based on my perception of whether the move was good or not. It was based on the fact that villain rejammed entire stack with oesd over two villains after a otf raise, which seems uncharacteristic of a "tag".

I agree, this is not a "taggy" move. After I see this, I would change my read. It has nothing to do with him being any good or not.

I kind of like his play, to be honest.

Im not reclassifying the villain at all. Calling a raise with Q9s from the BB isnt super tight but its not super loose either. His flop play is pretty aggro Id say....so Im cool with the TAG label. And I very much like his play.

Its a winning line as most people here wanted to fold. I count 7 fold and 1 call....until results were revealed and then a couple more people came out of the woodwork to say its a call.

Personally if I had the Q9s, I wouldve raised the flop after the SB donked out but I like villains line also.

So what does hero do if the flop goes: bet, raise?

If it's still fold then villain is making a killer play. Probably has hero pegged as weak-tight.

I don't necessarily hate his play either. Although you have to pick your opponents carefully when bluffing like this. One advantage to LLSNL is that your bluffs don't always tell have to tell a convincing story. Sometimes if your villain is capped, you can just blast them off the top of their range even if it's inconsistent with how you would play value. That's likely what he is trying to do here.

This hand is a bit of a leveling spot, and if you are off either way you can get owned. Villains line is pretty full of **** here, which makes me want to call. But, as far as levels go:

Is villain a thinking player who thinks I'm a standard weak TAG that can fold an OP here? Then call.

Is villain a mouth breather? Fold, because he can have all 2p+

Is villain a thinking player who thinks given the action one or both of us will station off with everything? Fold, because he is planning on a call, even if it's a poorly played 2p+.