Table playing semi loose pre, weak side post. V1 is a spewy/scrappy regular. He's typically a very wide opener/defender, & overplays/overbluffs postflop. So my original plan is to isolate him w/ a hand well ahead of his RFI/call-3b range, but perhaps this was/is spew when offsuit & in MP. Unfortunately I get a train of calls.

V2 is a young asian reg. We've played a few times. He tries to play well, will stab/steal/value bet in obvious spots, but seems to have occasional difficulty folding pre/post (mostly pre). No significant history though. I figure vs this line/sizing, on this semi-wet/semi-dynamic flop texture, @ this SPR, the best play is to shove w/ TP2K, but maybe I'm incorrect. Hero is quiet, tight, younger WG, $240 effective. OTTH:

Hero (HJ): K J

Fold, limp x 2, V1 r $8, Hero 3b $30, fold, BTN calls, V2 (SB) calls, fold, MP calls, V1 calls

Flop ($154): J 5 2

V2 b $65, fold x 2, Hero r $210 all-in

KJo is not ahead of his RFI unless he opens way over 30%, and it definitely is not against his 3b call range, unless he opens 40% and folds 0% vs 3-bet. You also arent accounting for the people behind you.

Vs a range of 26% RFI (very high for MP), you have 47.44%. You could up it to 30-32%, and it still wont justify 3-betting KJo.

22+,A2s+,K7s+,Q7s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,64s+,5 4s,A9o+,KTo+,QJo

Fold pre. The worst hand I'd do this with is KQs.

OTF you cant fold TP when the SPR is less than 2, seems std.

If you want to open up your 3b game, it's best from the BTN. You have absolute position and less people behind who can defend vs your 3b. And if the blinds call, you can way overrealize equity.

Fold pre


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His RFI is not especially relevant as he is isolating two limpers.

I'm more interested to know if V1 has a sizing tell. $8 over two limpers is awfully small.

+1 on this

$8 into limpers is what players do with small pairs to salt the flop so if they hit their set they get paid.

he then leads into the field and the pre-flop 3-better???

smells like 55

thats one hand, don´t soulread the guy.
not really sure about pre, but as played gii is fine imo

Flop leader is V2 who called from SB, not the opener.

I think a shove here is spew. WA/WB...you won't get better to fold (with the possible exception of AJ) and all worse will fold.

Pre flop 3! is meh...OTB I maybe could get there, but I want the nuts position to even think about 3! this pre. I likely just fold, but would mix in a few flats as well.

I'd say he's pretty cavalier w/ his opens whether there are limpers or not. Around 25% iyam. Should've made that more clear. I have seen him use different sizings pre, but IDK what they mean yet, as he doesn't showdown much, but my instinct is always smaller = weaker, especially if they open @ a high frequency.

@ Minatorr : Good suggestions. Your range looks close to correct IMO. Generally I think we sort of have to step outside & make thinner iso plays here & there with a clear donator in the game. I'd wager his F3B is less than 20%, so KJo should retain most of its hot/cold equity in theory, and now we can generate FE w/ initiative. But yes, marginal position/no suitedness sucks.

My bad, was just reading the RFI part and assumed there was no limps. If anything, it makes the 3b worse since he’s iso raising and not RFI

As I explained to ATC, it doesn't matter for this particular Villain. He's stubborn/egoic & still opening ~ 25%. Take me @ my word or not.

Against a 25% range, KJo is still not good enough to be 3b for value. Plus as i said earlier, you arent accounting for the 4-5 people behind you, esp the BTN/CO who have position on you or if any player wakes up with a monster

I think KJs is fine, but id probably save that play for CO/BTN. Suitedness and position is very valuable in 3b pots, gives you a lot more playability. Position lets you overrealize equity

KJo is fine as a 3b bluff.

Is it fine as a bluff if we don't expect to have any fold equity against the original opener? I doubt it.

Im sure in a vacuum 3b KJo here as a bluff is decently -EV

Fair enough, but KJo has alot of SDV/playability vs a guy who doesn't fold most of their wide opening range pre vs a 3b.

@ Minatorr : Yeah, I hear you. Thanks for the input.

Depends on openers range and if this small iso bet has implications on his range.

If he has a lot of SCs and broadways some of which we dominate, it's not bad.

Appreciate the feedback.

seems like you got what you deserved . no business in the hand in the first place

Can you or anyone else please explain the logic behind this?

IMO V2 taking the lead into this many opponents is going to be a range that contains no hands we are beating, and our shove will have very minimal fold equity. MAYBE if we had TPTK but even then I think we're hoping for a chop at best?

I like a fold pre, as played our 3 bet bluff did not work and I'm folding flop.

If you treat the flop bet as V2 shoves 210 and we call 210, we need 36.5% equity. Versus V2's exact hand, we have 23.5%.

It only takes a handful of reasonable combos such as the following to bump us up to 45%. If we had a hand like AJ we'd have 49%.

Thread is too results oriented pre, this 3b is probably fine but borderline. At this decision point we have no reason to believe anyone has a strong hand and we are IP. It's very rare we get all those calls preflop.

Flop lead from the SB into that many people is very strong. He's going to have a good hand here a lot like AJ, overs and fd, pair + fd, JJ, QQ. I think johnnyBuz range is too loose considering V flatted a 3b in the SB and OP's description says he's trying to play well. Given these results I just fold.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

17,820 trials (Exhaustive)

board: J52

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
KsJh	24.02%	4,218	126
AsQs, AJ, AsTs, QQ, JJ, QsJs	75.98%	13,476	126

Your range is ridiculously tight given we have this to go off of...

Thanks for your response!

I personally wouldn't include all NFD's in Vs range here. Also we don't have AJ. I think in almost any call X to win X you can inflate a V's range with draws to make it break even or push it into the fist pump GII category.

Hero's description says he is a decent player who gets sticky pre and post, not that he is shoving all draws and TP fourth kicker..

I'm staying in the fold camp.

@ Johnny - Interesting/concise analysis. Much appreciated.