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Old 08-20-2015, 11:28 PM   #1
6betfold
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1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

Hero is new at table. V is a 50 year old chatty white guy.

Effective $300

Hero completes SB with KJss in a 5 way pot where V limped CO.

Flop ($10): 357scs
Checks to V, V bets $5, BTN call, Hero call, BB call

Turn ($30): 4s
Hero leads $20, only V calls

River ($70): 6d
Hero leads $45, V asks how much I have left and announces "$125 on top"
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:41 PM   #2
Burnit3x
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

Pot is offering you 80 to win 285, you have the second nuts, how can you ever fold here?
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:44 PM   #3
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

It's $125 on top of $45 = $170
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:55 PM   #4
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

You still can't fold
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:55 PM   #5
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

Nvm.

i is brain dead atm

Last edited by Flopp3dIt; 08-21-2015 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 08-20-2015, 11:58 PM   #6
Burnit3x
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

He can bet the flop very wide and continue with a large chunk of that range on the turn, including a lot of Ax hands with the ace of spades. When the river comes in, it kills his entire non-flush range. It's really a great spot to bluff if he has the ace of spades because he knows you never have the nuts, it's almost the only hand he'll ever be bluffing with in this spot. I would probably close my eyes and call with the 2nd nuts.
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Old 08-21-2015, 12:36 AM   #7
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnit3x View Post
He can bet the flop very wide and continue with a large chunk of that range on the turn, including a lot of Ax hands with the ace of spades. When the river comes in, it kills his entire non-flush range. It's really a great spot to bluff if he has the ace of spades because he knows you never have the nuts, it's almost the only hand he'll ever be bluffing with in this spot. I would probably close my eyes and call with the 2nd nuts.
Is it a spew to reraise all in here?
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Old 08-21-2015, 01:05 AM   #8
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

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Is it a spew to reraise all in here?
no. just ask if ur ahead of 50% or more of his call range.
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Old 08-21-2015, 01:06 AM   #9
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

never folding here. u beat badly played 8x and weaker flushes. id only fold against reallly nitty players or passive fish who dont raise unless they have nuts
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Old 08-21-2015, 01:32 AM   #10
Burnit3x
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

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Is it a spew to reraise all in here?
No. If he's raising this with anything but the nuts then he's calling your all-in for ~$100 more wide enough too.

Thinking more about this hand, I think a nut flush is raising the turn 90% of the time for value. Just calling does not build a big pot with the nuts at the best opportunity, he has to hate money if he's not raising this turn with a flush. Also, he has no idea if you're going to lead river so it just seems like he's playing a flush terribly passive on the turn if he has it. The river RR looks more like a response to the 6 coming in, and his mode changes entirely from passive to aggressive, as if he's trying to raise you off a chop.

In my mind, I have this vision of 46xx being incredibly pissed off by that river.

Last edited by Burnit3x; 08-21-2015 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 08-21-2015, 01:49 AM   #11
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

c'mon, V limped from late position! He has SO many 87, 86, 55, 44, 33, etc on his hands and he would definitely overvalue his straight and not believe you have the flush that this is a pretty clear snap call imo.
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Old 08-21-2015, 03:31 AM   #12
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

Raise pre. Call river against unknown.
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Old 08-21-2015, 09:33 AM   #13
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

What is the reasoning behind raisin pf oop against 5 limpers? From my experience this will just bloat the pot with a "trouble hand". I say this because it is very common for limpers to come along for any reasonable raise because they know the pot already gonna be big before the flop. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I reference to the hand I think it's an easy call or possible rrai against this v. You crush a majority of his range in what could easily be a bluff/spew raise.
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Old 08-21-2015, 09:49 AM   #14
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

As played it's a call. A raise only gets called by better hands. But damn, I wish we got stacks in by this point.

I don't like raising pre-flop. Our hand flops well and even when we miss we can make bets that will still have equity when called. Should be easy to make money if we hit a flop.

On the flop though....flat calling a $5 bet was atrocious. Definitely raise. It won't be so expensive that worse draws will fold, and you have tons of outs against all kinds of stuff that would still call after you bump it to $25. From there, it should be easy to play for stacks once you hit the turn.

As played, we got raised on the river while holding the 2nd nuts and we're gonna let the guy escape with 1/3 of his stack intact. Puke.
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Old 08-21-2015, 10:54 AM   #15
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

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Originally Posted by kookiemonster View Post
Raise pre.
Disagree. Would consider raising if on the button. Would seriously consider folding in SB if it were KJo.

KJ is a lousy hand.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:16 AM   #16
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

I'm seeing the 3rd nuts here ... 56ss is first, eh?

Shoving here is interesting as we could get called by other flushes and 8x or 89 straights as well. But ...

Why is the V 'value' betting here and not just shoving to get the full effect of the 'not enough in the pot to call for a chop' routine?

I would hope he saw us lead out on the very obvious Turn card. I would be very interested in the timing of the bet and call on the Turn. If V has Ax flush he probably would be worried about someone filling up or 'maybe' holding the straight flush already and probably raise the Turn.

We don't know how spewy this guy is, but if we can include a bunch of 8x hands, 89 of course and other flushes then we should shove here ... but I'm smelling a cooler here. Hands that 'explode' on the River generally need to have caution applied. The one thing we have going for us is that his calling range 'should' expand based on 'only' having $100 behind. GL

Last edited by answer20; 08-21-2015 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:26 AM   #17
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

As far as PF .. KJ is a hand you can get into trouble with for sure. This hand case in point. But if you are at a passive table I think it is fine to raise with as long as you know how to get away from it. OP doesn't really give us info on himself or V (or table).

If you aren't seeing very many 3-bets at a passive table (they go together, yes?) then there's nothing wrong with a raise and take PF to get the snakes out of the bushes when (if) they call. If you take this down 1 of 5 times you are ahead.

If your image is viewed as fairly tight, then this is a hand to stay away from in EP since you wont be called by worse very often and then you are praying for the dream Flop that can still get you in trouble .. how do you feel about AJ9 coming out?

Playing in the same 'neighborhood' (Ace to ten/nine) with medium holdings against IP opponents is a good way to feel uncomfortable at the table for some. GL
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:26 AM   #18
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

It seems like the interesting spots are everywhere except the current river decision.

Pre is fine - I am raising here near always.
Flop as played - seems like we should be raising the $5 otf
Turn as played - leading seems fine.
River - I think we should be over betting this river near always - I prob just bet like $150

As played ... seems like a call is best. Shoving can't be too bad as I would expect V to raise turn fairly often with the NF. Folding is not an option.
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:52 PM   #19
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

RESULTS:

Hero called and V flipped over A6ss. I don't understand what 50 year old passive looking guy would raise Qhi flushes or bluffs OTR. Ugh.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:21 PM   #20
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Re: 1/2 K hi flush facing huge raise on river

he usually has an Ax of spades here, i just dont see many people in these games making big river raises with flushes less than ace high. Since he's an unknown tho, I think calling is the play here. 3 betting seems spewy and folding seems too tight given your lack of info on V
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