$1-$2 JJ w/140 bbs effective - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Super strong button 3-bet against a nit's raise. Playing JJ OOP deepstacked is not ideal for us against a skilled player. You are in a tough spot here and I favor making a preflop fold.

FWIW I also think that if villain had AK on the button he is likely to raise a bit larger than 32 to increase fold equity...Just a bet-sizing tell I've seen over the years in low stakes spots like these.

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09-01-2011 , 10:37 AM

#28

Chunkamunk

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 447

Quote:

Originally Posted by W3rdy303

Bold is Very true, however JJ is too strong to be folding here preflop in position or not.

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09-01-2011 , 01:21 PM

#29

MinRaze

adept

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 777

Quote:

Originally Posted by livegrinder

minraze, i think bet/fold flop is kinda bad, esp when the guy seems like he can float you and/or flat with AA/KK on flops like these and then the turn is like 8x and you're like "wtf do i do now".

Yeah, I guess if we want to narrow his 3b range to AKs,QQ+ OTB then it's an obvious fold pre. I don't have experience playing 1-2 so I will yield to those with more/any experience in this level. But without being results oriented I think we should be giving the vil a wider range if our read is that he is skilled and agg. Good discussion.

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09-01-2011 , 02:01 PM

#30

abgtr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 5,855

The flop minraise is so bad. Like worse than anything we could do preflop. Why don't we write a note to villain saying "I have a pair bigger than 6s" next time.

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09-01-2011 , 02:34 PM

#31

Nicolai

journeyman

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 294

I would fold pre as well, also why would you try a MR on under flops without a specific read on the guy? Most players will probably just fold AK if you MR, maybe call since they're getting decent odds etc. so we're telling him to fold his bluffs when we have a bluff catcher and to call with all of his hands that beat us?

A check/call is a far better line without reads, it would make sense if we know there's a decent chance he would spazz with worse if we MR, BUT we don't know that. I also would not check call here given that we don't know anything about this guy either.

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09-02-2011 , 08:28 AM

#32

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

Quote:

Originally Posted by endodocdc

Then why did villain shove if he put you on KK or QQ? Aggressive villains do 3bet lighter than AA, KK, AK when in position.

Preflop fold or 4bet/fold..... life sucks when flatting a 3bet oop against a skilled aggressive villain

Because he thought I would not be able to get away from my hand. Folding OTT/OTR is easier than OTF.

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09-02-2011 , 08:32 AM

#33

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

Quote:

Originally Posted by abgtr

The flop minraise is so bad. Like worse than anything we could do preflop. Why don't we write a note to villain saying "I have a pair bigger than 6s" next time.

Thanks for reading, not as much for the non-constructive feedback.

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09-02-2011 , 12:08 PM

#34

endodocdc

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,012

Quote:

Originally Posted by samo

Thanks for reading, not as much for the non-constructive feedback.

A couple of things: Never bet or raise for the purpose to "see where you're at", you bet or raise for value or as a bluff, in order to get value from hands you beat or make better hands fold. The information you get from betting or raising comes as a consequence of said action...It isn't done for the purpose of information.

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09-02-2011 , 01:27 PM

#35

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

^
Thanks. Due to my perceived image I actually felt there was a good chance of folding-out QQ.

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09-02-2011 , 01:32 PM

#36

abgtr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 5,855

Quote:

Originally Posted by samo

Thanks for reading, not as much for the non-constructive feedback.

My feedback was that your play is super face up and I think most villains will now know your hand.

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09-02-2011 , 01:36 PM

#37

DeeKay

grinder

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 597

*Grunch*

I'm ok with flatting JJ in this spot versus an aggressive opponent and your 'nittish' image. It seems like villain is buying the button while polarizing your range. If he's a level 2 thinker, he's putting you on a middle pair and he can have almost ATC. With these stack sizes, I'd prefer a c/c c/shove line.

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