Villain is mid-late 30s, taxi driver-looking, Middle Eastern dude with a baseball cap (yes, I totally just stereotyped). Been active and very aggressive pre and post flop, but with decent holdings from what he's shown down. Pounces when he senses weakness (or when he thinks he does). Old school player who goes by gut and feel rather than math and odds. Built up his stack to ~$500 in about 40 minutes.

Hero is early 30s, handsome and charming (and bit of a narcissistic douche), socializing and laughing with the table a lot. Nobody notices that I'm playing tighter than a nun's vag, due to the talking, but I'm giving off the image of a loose player, because I seem to get a lot of pre-flop action. Have shown down solid hands when called and took down some small pots without showdown. ~$450 stack. My image to V is that I'm a young, aggressive tough guy who always has **** cards and is pushing people around. This is him stereotyping me.

V is on a $4 straddle and I'm in the SB. Five limpers, I make it $30 with JsJh, BB calls (weak-tight, but likes to see raised flops with slightly better than marginal cards like KQs) and V calls.

Flop comes 10-6-8h. I lead for $65 and BB folds. V insta-snap-turbo shoves verbally (doesn't even put in the $65). He starts smack-talking soon after I go in the tank and say, "all in? Why would you do that?" "Because you have nothing.... What's the matter, tough guy? Not so tough any more?" I tell him, "I don't play like that, I have a hand here." He replies, "yeah, sure you do, tough guy."

At this point I'm running through all of the hand combinations and the lines that would reasonably be taken here (flopped flushes, sets, overpairs, two-pairs, and hands with Ah) by those hands. I ruled out 10-8 and 8-6, as I couldn't see him calling a big pre-flop raise with those types of hands. He'd most definitely 3-bet QQ+ preflop and obviously at least call with AK, so those holdings had a low chance, especially with a third player in. That leaves sets, flopped flushes, and hands with a 10. The questions then became: if he had a set or flush why would he jam when I'm putting money in the pot when he thinks I have a hand that can't/won't call? And why would he do that with a 10 for the same reasons?

After much deliberation (must have been at least three full minutes - surprised nobody called time), I...



Call or fold? What would you do?

For someone with 11k posts I would expect a more organized post.

I fold, too deep to be stacking off with an overpair on such a coordinated board here.

maybe he could have a hand like AhTx

I think you're flipping against most of his range and with the dead money in the pot, I'd probably call. Only hand we're doing terrible against is a A/K/Q-high flush. Don't think he'd overbet jam those hands, most of the time V's are jamming flush draws/combo draws. I'd call and expect to be flipping most of the time.

Wait, how is it disorganized? Serious question.

1. Ignore him.
2. Don't stack off with jacks this deep.
3. If he bluffed you, cool. He gets your loose change now, you get his stack later. Just take notes and be patient.

Don't make me analyse this hand. Sigh. OK.

Doubt QQ+, as aggro as he is, he raises every single time. In fact, has he straddled before? Does he usually check his straddle, or raise it? Odds are I think his hand was pretty weak pre.

Could he be doing this with a draw? Maybe. There's a decent amount of dead money in the pot, but dang. Shoving this deep, even with a decent draw... not something most people would do, and on a monochrome flop (I presume?) he has enough fold equity even with a min-raise. I just think shoving here with a draw would be unusually reckless. I discount that possibility.

OTOH I doubt he's nutted. He's gotta consider the possibility you could fold here. Some rec/gamblers are that dumb, they get all excited when they see the nuts. Maybe that smack-talking is all about goading you into a call? Maybe. Maybe.

Overall, though, the whole thing looks like a 2p/set sorta hand trying to protect itself.

Which is interesting, because if that's true, you are probably getting odds here.

See, this is why I don't analyse stuff like this!!! Sheesh just fold.

Yeah I think it is a fold. Too deep when it seems like you are either a slight favorite or big underdog.

Perhaps it wasn't "disorganized"

I just found it difficult to find the information I needed embedded within the mass of text.

It could have been a little more concise is what I ment.

Wanted to tell a story and not just lay out the facts.

Not that it's a big dead, but I kinda agree about the organization. Even something as simple as that makes a different imo.


As for the hand, we have an SPR of 4 on the flop.
Not super deep that we hate stacking off. The shove is pretty strong, but then again it's pretty huge if he wants value.
But I've seen people do this with 2p being afraid of getting out drawn, so it's a coin flip.

We are getting a pretty good price on our call.

But talking is generally pretty strong too. I guess that I'd fold in the end and not be happy about it. And certainly not tell anyone what I had.

I understand my friend!

It was more interesting then the usual post, albeit a bit difficult to nav.

I called.

Not gonna say what happened yet, though.

Tbh... I probably wait for a better spot to stack him.

Calling definitely not bad, but I'm happy to let him keep running his mouth.

In reality, there's no reason to push thin spots against ******s like him.

Be patient. You'll get his money with less risk.

If he hadn't talked I'd lean towards a call. But given the speech this is a pretty easy fold.

I agree. I don't think many people will level enough to taunt someone I to calling when they truly wish a fold


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Most of the time when we talk about RIO it's preflop.

This is the post flop kind. There are the times you're behind and even the times you're ahead, how ahead are you? Against T9/98/87/67/96/T7 you're only about 65-70%.

And with this much of an overbet, you need to be right so much of the time. If he pegged you for AK and shoved 44, so be it. You're not giving up much.

He had Ad10d which didn't improve.

He's appealing to your ego to get... A call sounds like.

Also you're deep. Usually you're not that far ahead. Adds up to a fold. Let him preen. That's fine.

I've made this call and been right and made this call and been wrong. Prob is even when we are not facing 2p, sets or flopped straights and flushes (or the occasional slow played over pair) we are often going to be up against combo draws with significant equity. So folding to the over bet shove isn't terrible and against a lot of players is the correct play.

I had one of these yesterday with QQ on a monotone board and was put in a fold or shove spot. I shoved and he had the flopped straight.

You had the right read on the right player but more frequently at 1/2 you're going to be in pretty bad shape.