Villian could be confident as he said something about 2+2 earlier in the game.

He plays a wide range of hands and this was my 1st 3bet of the match. I had a $600 stack and was playing pretty well and catching some cards.

Villian UTG+1 - $180 stack - Raises $7 - This was not a normal raise - he normally made it $10 - so I figured he was weak and if he called my 3bet his range would be super wide.

Hero mid position 3bets to $25 with J8hh

folds to villian - he calls.

$53 pot

278

Hero Bets $35
Villian calls

Turn Q

Pot $120ish

Villian checks
Hero??

I think a shove here is mandatory as it may fold out better like TT or A8 type of hands and should fold out most of his equity that is drawing. Any one else think this is a spew? I'm essentially turning my hand into a bluff and if I get called i'm probably in bad shape. Also it's my 1st 3bet of the night and i've been at the table for 3+ hours and villian has to know this.

Fold pre.

As played, ship the turn

A Villain who mentions 2+2 at the table is not competent...
But if he is then he should be aware of your 3! range. Also, knowing that you're playing well and catching cards is not a hero read. Need more details on hero please.

3betting villain light is okay, not sure I like it against UTG+1 unless you're really confident this sizing means weakness.

As played I ship it too.

Agree with this, but I think the whole idea behind it is that V has bet sizing tells and is betting UTG with a PP or decently high SC. In which case the plan shoulda been to 3! and Cbet bet all flops. So the fact you flopped TP is kinda irrelevant. That said you don't mention these tells in your reads so I would just fold PF and hope to see a showdown that I can exploit later.

I do mention this in my reads and the plan was the cbet most flops that were not super wet that i completely whiffed if he just called.

This is true - but this was the read. Any one that normally bets like that UTG who was at this table was doing so with a hand they wanted to play multi way.

So his range is prolly like

pocket pairs 22 - 88
T9 suited
A5 - AJ suited
Maybe KJ - KQ suited

I'm going to say he never has TT - AA / AQ+ /

I bet because on most flops he is going to check / fold. I'm really surprised he called the Cbet and I put him on ethir 99 / a set / or a flush draw when he called and at that point having a pair of 8's is irrelevant. I still think he could have a lot of draws so a SHIP is prolly the best move followed by a check/fold

Fold pre. I think small raises in early position typically signify strength, not weakness. I wouldn't 3bet light (very light) a utg+1 raise with J8s in middle position. I think it's ok if the villain's small raise came from middle position and hero is in late position. Good cbet on the flop.

You've boxed yourself into shoving or giving up on the turn. You can probably fold out draws and 99-JJ by shoving. I think you need a better read of villain's postflop play to feel confident about shoving. You need it to work about 50% of the time to be profitable. I'd shove if villain has folded to big bets before and check/fold if he tends to call down or slowplay.

a shove on the turn looks VERY suspect from the villains point of view.
With stack sizes, If you had AA/KK wouldn't you bet more like $50 on the turn? He's never folding a queen, and I don't think 99-JJ are excited to fold, the Q is more or less a blank

I prefer a weak bet/fold on the turn like 40-60, to get calls from AK to small PP, I don't see too many hands that we beat that shove the turn, even a flush draw would probably just call not expecting us to ever fold to a tiny shove, whilst they are getting a good price to draw

don't ship; shipping caps ur range and it looks stupid from any thinking villain-- if you ship you're repping KJcc KQcc AKcc AKo AQo KQo more than anything else and if he has better he'd be calling you in the same way as if you bet like 75 in that spot. in 75 your range more looks like AA KK QQ TT JJ AQ 99, or something protecting against the draw. it's harder to call the 75 in villains spot.
i picture villains range to be something like 99 89 77 66 T9s 96s 65s A8o A8s A7o A7s QTcc KTcc K9cc Q9cc K8o, etc.
anything calling the 75 turn is going to be calling your shove, and a lot of trip barrels on most rivers will get him to fold most of his range cept tp+ which him having is unlikely

key is that your range looks stronger than his every step of the way

people say fold pre, but i like the light 3 bet; so as played bet 75 turn, and bet like 135/170 river that doesn't come out A,K, T,5 or a club i guess

how did he box himself? if he shoved ott i would snap him off with 99-JJ

ES$180

Villain only has about $120 left. Hero could bet $75, but has to call any turn raise or river bet. Hero might as well try to max fold equity by shoving on the turn. I think the villain would fold certain hands that beat hero. 99-JJ has to strongly consider hero has AQ+/JJ+ after hero's 3bet, cbet, and turn shove. The only hand 99-JJ beat is AK. All draws would be getting poor odds against a made hand and also should fold.

The only other option is checking the turn and reevaluate on the river. It's then tough to call any significant river bet by villain. I think it's pretty optimistic to hope for a checkdown.

your right that he has to call a turn raise or river bet, but why is that a bad thing here? what would shoving do with a 600 dollar stack when the dude only has 120 left? at that point 75 is as good as shoving which is 120....... if you shove you're just unbalancing your play-- what other hands would you be doing that with there?; 99-JJ beats AKo AJcc AKcc maybe AJo? KJcc? KJo? if you're cbetting with AQ id also assume you're cbetting with AJ and KJ KQ,

I agree this is a shove. In live play, I probably ask villain how much he has left/move your hands so I can see your stack/how many green chips, then make the move.

My reasoning is that an OVERshove does look pretty bluffy here. But now that his stack is = the pot, a shove is entirely reasonable. ...For the same reason, I'm likely to bet $200 rather than announce all-in. That maintains a consistent story: I have aces/kings. I figure I'm ahead. Let's play for stacks.

Pretty sure we're also shoving 99+, AQ, any Qx we 3bet

7 seems super small for opening size. I am huge proponent for 3 betting light. But this is not the spot. We arnt near deep enough.

I don't like turning our hand into a bluff here. We got good showdown value.

We can bet turn, for value vs draws. Possible induce spazz.

Also can check back. Give free card. And bluff catch or value bet river.

Ya villian didn't have a huge amount of chips left so I couldn't bet/fold $75

Checking back is decent but Villian will have equity and may fold the best hand if we shove. If we check turn we almost have to call any weak bet on the river imo. May fold if he donk bets an Ace river over $50.

I don't think we need to be deep to 3bet light - this is my 1st 3bet of the whole session - it should get some respect. I can only imagine he puts me on a huge pocket pair or at least AK.

You are playing 1/2. Lol at getting respect. Watch guys who only 3 bet AA get called all the time.

3 betting light with less 100BB is very -ev. You have created a big pot with SPR of 3. We are not gonna hit flop very often. So we will be bluffing most of time.

Most Villains call to much. Putting us in alot of bad spots with J high.

Playing deep changes everything. Playing this short. It turns into a game of chicken.

3 betting light with these stack sizes is tough. Add in fact that L8ve we don't generate enough enough folds preflop or on flop. It is super high variance.

+1. Hero shouldn't even be in this pot. Pick a better spot to 3bet if you think he'd call with a super wide range.

Also, adjust your 3bet sizes when playing with shorter stacked villains. A smaller 3bet of about $20 means you can cbet for about $25-30. You can get away from the hand easier if villain calls both the 3bet and cbet.

Pf, ep raise to 7 provides very little info. I've seen this w rags and AA. You 3! To 25, everyone else folds, he could flat w anything. His range is all PP, big SC and more.
There's $10 in the pot and you're in middle position w a weak hand. I don't think 3! Is the right play here. Wait for a better spot.
Others are pointing out eff stacks and that's a reason too. But really, it's more that even w position, this hand doesn't play well in raised pots. It doesn't play well HU. J8s plays ok in limped multiway pot in position. Wrong spot for this hand unless you're jut playing the opponent. If that's the case, then as played, ship turn.

Your tactics weren't horrible, but I think your strategic thinking is off. (Referring to this session as a "match" strikes me as a Freudian slip.)

Questions:

1. Why are you going after this guy? Is he a target, and if so, why?
2. What is the plan?
3. Why is now the time?