1/2 on a Sunday morning. Hero just lost a 650 dollar pot after 4bet shoving preflop with AK and after a super short stack 3bet shoved for 50 and a deep guy who had flatted the 3bet called my 4bet. Deep guy had AJ and rivered a J. Hero then lost a 400 dollar pot after rivering the nut flush on a paired board and lost to a full house.

Lost 600 in about 20 minutes and just rebought for $300.

Villain is in the 9 seat. Middle aged Black guy who used to play 2/5 at Commerce in LA and flew to this casino in particular for the weekend. He's okay. He opens a little too often preflop, and sometimes with junk. Not like spewtard bad, but it's noticable that him and I are the only one's opening preflop. I saw him take a bet, c/c, bomb river line with a busted flush draw in a HU pot. And against me he opened with 78o, and I called OTB with 66 and he c/c 3 streets against me on a 752QQ board, after i tried to turn it into a bluff OTR.


Hand:
Hero is perceived to be tilting I think. I just lost those big pots, and woke up with KK and AQ back to back and got no action. This was right after that.

Hero ($300) opens with 88 utg for 10. Villain (250) calls in MP, 1 more call from BB.

Flop(30): T94

BB checks, I bet 20, Villain calls, BB folds.

Turn(70): 5. Hero bets 35. Villain calls relatively quickly.

River(140): J. Board: T945J.

Hero is thinking for a while and Villain says" we're gonna get stacks in anyways", Hero checks, and Villain bets 120 with about 40 behind.


My thoughts:
Value hands for the Villain:

Rivered 2 pair(JT, J9) don't bet that large because he knows I don't rep much and cant have much of a river c/c-ing range that he can get value from. He'd bet around 60 with those hands.

Flopped 2 Pair: T9. I think he's raising the flop, and the same thinking applies to the river bet sizing.

Straights: KQ, 87. Don't these hands just shove or bet smaller on the river? Plus blockers to 87

Hands that worry me: JJ, QJ.

QJ would be gross.

Can I hero call?

from the way you played the hand start to finish I'd say you WERE tilting. This is not a winning line for this hand from pre to the river.

i believe the only hands you beat here are AK AQ of spades. or against a ******, a 6-7...

if this guy is opening light - how light? any pair, any suited Ace any two broadways? any high suited connectors - 10/9, 9/8, 8/7

let's face it, they all beat you.

you're out of position with third pair having three times been called by a half decent villain and having lost two stacks in the past hour.

it feels like you're behind to everything except 77, 66, 67ss and then badly played AK and AQ here but if the above range is accurate, you're a mile behind his range.

I would have given up on the hand, but if you were planning on putting any more money into this pot, then you should have kept your initiative and been aggressive and bet hard at it, to potentially fold out some hands that beat you. Now, by checking, you're put to a difficult decision and given a thinking villain the opportunity to take you off a pot with hands that you may beat.

if it was me, I'd check fold and had a 10 minute walk around the casino to clear my head.

Yeah, c/f otr is a no brainer. Obviously the flop Cbet is fine. Gotta just shut it down OTT, right?

Any thoughts on his river sizing though? which value hands do you think are most likely, because let's say he's not ******ed, and when he bets for value he actually wants to get me to call, and he isn;t thinking 2 levels deep and making me think he's making a bluffy sized river bet for value.

Yeah I probably was tilted, but you think my play Pre and OTF is bad? Please explain because I don't agree.

Also of note, tables here are only 9 handed, and this hand started with only 7 or 8 people dealt in, which might effect your thoughts on my preflop open?

preflop depends on the table, but I've found that raising 55-88 UTG at more than a 6max table is asking for an awkward spot which you got. If it's a nitty table then fire away. If there's LP's behind you, which there almost always is live, then I'm not sure raising pre is profitable. Coupled with your current image, you're not going to have much FE if you need to cbet an unsavory flop.
FLOP- I'm not sure cbetting into two players with two overs and a few likely draws out there as well is advisable. It feels weak, but I think you have to check this flop, which brings us back to the perils of opening 88 UTG in a game with likely loose preflop players. If you'd been folding for two hours and someone at the table had mentioned it, then you're play is probably ok, but not now.

Turn is spew. Pot control so you're not bluff catching for 150bb+. AP, instafold, V is not making speeches on a bluff.

I think you could of found out where your at; by def check/raising that turn, if he calls there you might have an idea that hes touching that board and can allow you too put less in the pot also finding out valuable information(about how strong he really is and if hes willing to go further... also possibly take down the pot right there).... but by leading into him every street and then checking that river indicates that your weak since you didn't even VB that river and pretty much that your giving up your hand from checking(looks like you have AQ + here. everything beats you on that river imo. your in a horrible spot and have no idea where your villian is at so your virtually just giving your money away. villians calling range here 87s, JQ, J10, don't think he VB any one pair of 10 or 9s on that river but maybe pair of jacks.

This whole thread is a mess.

Horrible river bet. What are you repping?

C/f flop and c/f turn.

What exactly is your reasoning behind these bets? You're betting for the sake of betting.

I'm guessing for the actual hand you folded and he showed some ridiculous bluff, but this whole hand is a mess.

Check/fold flop.

I dont think you can ever make the call here. You can hardly beat any of the guys range and the most likely hand is JQ, which he knows is good from your river check.
Flop bet is fine, but i dont like the turn bet. What is your reasoning for this bet?

c/f river, and its not even close

3barrel with 66 didn't sound real good either.

u named a buncha hands that beat you, now name more hands that dont beat you and see if it adds up

yea the 752QQ hand is really bad.

absolutely no reason to bluff that river. Better hands are never folding (Q on river is a brick).

For the 88 hand, why are you 1/2 potting the turn? If this is for value... I don't see the value lol. If he has a draw, just take a free card and hope the river bricks out.

He's calling the turn with any piece when you bet so small. And most of those pieces beat us. We also have blockers to the straight draw, which is a BAD THING, because his range is weighted towards made hands, which beat us.

Yes, the 66 hand is a complete clusterfcuk but can we talk about his river bet sizing in the 88 hand? If I think he's good, and you guys say my hand range is completely face up and SUPER weak, why would he make a terribly sized value bet otr. I think villain is a thinker to the extent that he can properly size a river bet to get a call out of me, but I don't give him enough credit to make a bet look bluffy to get me to hero call. Why would he ever bet more than 60 on this river?

I easily rep 88-JJ in the 66 hand btw

Because its 1/2 and this is how you value town fish who want to hero call when it's obvious they are beat. I love his bet, I think his bet did exactly what he wanted. For you to call, for him to show you the nuts and for you to justify the call on 2+2.

Speech --> Run away (and fold)

Agree to disagree. I just don't give him credit for doing that. I think his line is as transparent as mine, and he shows up with bluffs here a good portion of the time

Yeah, the turn bet is pretty atrocious, I guess I justified it at the time to protect from being raised, but I'm not sure that's even valid. It's hard to play hands OOP.

bad spot to turn a hand with showdown value into a bluff. can't see any reason not to just get to showdown, especially given board run-out.

raise more preflop, check flop, check turn, fold river. you played every street wrong.

I agree with you. I'm calling here. The only hands he would bet this much with are straights and air. He is going to check back any mid pairs. He might bet a jack but as you said he would bet something like $60. Since there is much more air in his range than straights, I actually think this is an easy call.