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1/2: Hero range evaluation OTT

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08-08-2013 , 09:25 AM

SkatingIsTough

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 178

Prehand Descriptions
Villain 1: Just opened new table, very first hand. Young guy talking strategy with his buddy a few seats to his right.

$1/2 NL (10 handed)

EP Villian ($200)
EP+1 Hero ($200)

Villian raises to $12, Hero Calls, everyone folds

Flop ($27) K56r
V bets $18, Hero calls

Turn ($63) 6

V1 checks, Hero ???

I would like to discuss hero hand ranges on betting this turn and on checking behind this turn along with explanation on where the value is coming from based on villains actions thus far and his continuing ranges. I know this may seem on the surface fairly standard but I have been thinking about this hand for a couple days and I'd like some input.

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08-08-2013 , 09:37 AM

quesuerte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,333

Well you should never get here without AK, 66 or 55. Seriously, that is it.

On the basis villain doesn't know this I think you only ever get 1 street of value and are more likely to get it on the river. So check all your range.

Sorry if that is not very exciting.

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08-08-2013 , 09:42 AM

Jihad2

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 350

Eh, don't forget 78 and all pp.

Either way this line by villain is super standard at llsnl and he's usually looking to fold. I'm betting almost everything here.

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08-08-2013 , 09:43 AM

SkatingIsTough

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 178

Quote:

Originally Posted by quesuerte

No, I didn't expect it to be that exciting.

Question is though why won't you call 7s-10s on such a good cbet board?

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08-08-2013 , 09:49 AM

quesuerte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,333

Meh, thought we were multiway for some reason, sorry.

I think it is pretty close for calling all those on the flop, since villains EP range should still be tight. If I call flop I certainly fire two big barrels after turn check. Just don't see hero calls in this spot often.

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08-08-2013 , 09:50 AM

quesuerte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jihad2

Eh, don't forget 78 and all pp.

Either way this line by villain is super standard at llsnl and he's usually looking to fold. I'm betting almost everything here.

If you are calling 6x opens from unknown EP raisers in EP with 100BB you are burning money.

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08-08-2013 , 09:59 AM

SkatingIsTough

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 178

Quote:

Originally Posted by quesuerte

With that said, is it spewy to be calling this flop with AQ with the knowledge that 1) it isn't a good double barrel board and 2) any turn on check cannot be Kx

Personally, I think it is spew without a better than clear read that he is cbetting and giving up often but in game seeing this situation its always a consideration.

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08-08-2013 , 10:05 AM

quesuerte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,333

Yes, it is spewy, IMO.

if 77-TT is close then AQ is bad IMO, for the simple reason that 5% of the time we make the near nuts OTT with the pairs and can value stack AK, whereas we actually have RIO to improve with AQ.

Yes, he'll give up sometimes but between the times he has it and the times he does barrel less that a king, I think it is unlikely to show a profit.

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08-08-2013 , 10:12 AM

SkatingIsTough

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 178

Agreed.

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08-08-2013 , 05:44 PM

#10

The Rumor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 9,559

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jihad2

Eh, don't forget 78 and all pp.

Either way this line by villain is super standard at llsnl and he's usually looking to fold. I'm betting almost everything here.

calling with 87 pre for 1/16th of our stack is lighting money on fire.

Really, when villain raises in EP, and we have no reads, we shouldn't be continuing this flop with hands worse than AK that were in our preflop calling range. His range should be reasonably snug at this point. Folding 77 isn't a big mistake if you don't have a read that villain will c bet air with a high frequency.

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08-08-2013 , 06:37 PM

#11

Dubey

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,844

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rumor

Are we folding KQs and KJs pf here?

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08-08-2013 , 06:38 PM

#12

Dubey

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,844

Also, OP, it wasn't explicitly stated, but is Villain UTG, and Hero UTG+1 here?

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08-08-2013 , 06:44 PM

#13

The Rumor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 9,559

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubey

Are we folding KQs and KJs pf here?

calling either of those vs an EP raise is probably -EV without a read on their raising range. Definitely the KJs is.

You only are getting 16:1 on your money, let's not go nuts pretending our draw values are that good

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08-09-2013 , 10:25 AM

#14

SkatingIsTough

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 178

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubey

Also, OP, it wasn't explicitly stated, but is Villain UTG, and Hero UTG+1 here?

Yea, sorry. UTG and UTG+1

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