Hero obvious fish who's never played 1-2 before, maybe looks tight and knows all the dealers if anyone is paying any attention ... there is an hours rakeback promotion for the month and H might look tired as he feels it (played the previous two days, all 4 players started this table together about an hour or 3 ago). H covers everyone.

V1 seems kind of tight/passive old guy. Rough previous HH: H opened QQ UTG to 8, V called. A92 flop, x, b10, c; Turn: A92 J, x, x; River: A92J8, x, x. V shows AQs. He's been slowly losing.

V2 is an 30s male idiot playing super wide pre, calls too much post and seemed to bluff small when checked to. Bought in for 200 to start, losing and maybe rebought. H doesn't notice until the end that he's pretty short now. Normal 1-2 vibes.

V3 is bad old guy, liked to call too wide for small amounts (limps) and raised small amounts with mediocre hands but bet big when he thinks he has it. Called 33 on 842 (3 or 4 ways) and then shoved the turn 3 for 3x pot or something. He's been hitting is up but then losing it and then hitting again, maybe has 350 now (also bought in for 200, I think).

The hand:

H opens AA UTG for 8
V1 calls next to act (UTG+1)
V2 calls next to act
V3 calls next to act

Flop: 9d62d
H bets 15
V1 call
V2 call
V3 call

H prays to the poker gods for a J or above, but at least not a T5 or 9.

Turn: 9d62d 9
H checks
V1 checks
V2 checks
V3 checks

H is maybe still good? Not sure if it's worth betting blank rivers, but who cares...

River: 9d62d9 T
H checks
V1 checks
V2 snap shoves
V3 snap calls before it is known V2 shoved for 37
H gets a count and ?

Do we have Ad? Regardless, I would check this flop a lot, especially OOP against 3 players. As played, I would probably fold the river, which seems to be why we checked the river anyway. Will they show up with some BS sometimes? Sure.

If I'm counting the pot correctly it was a shove of $37 into a bit under $100 pot. So $37 for you to call in a pot that is now $170 or so. At that point a call is probably a toss up in general but given your description of V3 I would find a fold. When 3 call the flop the chance somebody has a 9 or 87 is high. However, it's easy for a villain with TX to think they are good on the river. You will lose a lot but with those odds you don't need to win very often.

this is fullring? seems like a preflop call-heavy table, if so, adjust your ranges (make it tighter) and up your openraise size to 10/12. flop cbet is fine imo. river is whatever, near zero ev anyways. i lean more towards a fold against 2.

For 37 on the river with AA at 1/2 in such a big pot (~$170), I think I like an "lol we have AA" high IQ call and are probably good often enough.

Interesting question is if the V3 who called without realizing it was a shove (assuming they weren't pretending) can have 9x or better here? He likes to call for small amounts and raise with big hands, and it seems skewed to Tx.

Additionally, if V2 likes to bluff for small amounts. Would this $37 all-in not count?

Agree we could consider going bigger than 4x pre. I also don't mind exploitatively betting bigger on this board 4ways to thin the field/fold out equity.

I strongly disagree with should check this board with 3 other people on the flop at 1/2. I doubt people are going to be trying to put you in a spot as described.

Flop is a check.

You're going to have 99 (sometimes 66), most every nut flush draw, all the non nut diamond broadway draws, some non broadway K high diamond draws here.......and sometimes 87 combo draw and 87 bare straight draws.

All make better OOP 4 way cbets than a single overpair.

Nut potential and position are king in multiway pots. We literally have neither good nut potential nor position. Hence we check this flop.

It's not about the "putting you in a spot" as mentioned above. It's just the nature of how equity and position work in multiway pots.



River, a sigh call or a sigh fold......probably pretty indifferent. Though folding is likely the better choice if either is significantly more EV than the other.

Cbetting on this board is risky enough. "Exploitatively betting bigger" is really bad though. All we do with big bets is fold out low equity hands. Flush draws, straight draws and other high equity hands are going to continue.

Big bets on this board into 3 players completely isolates us against the best part of their range.....with semi strong hand at best with just an overpair here multiway.



We don't want hands like 9x and 6x to start folding out. That's a disaster.


I would be more ok with betting large with a hand like TT here.........as folding out hands like KQ, KJ, QJ, AJ, etc etc.....is really good and they might float vs small bets. With AA.....we don't need the same protection as hand like TT.



And we don't care if AJ, KQ, KJ, KQ, etc, etc, continue against AA here. That's an ideal situation. And when we make small cbets here and a K, Q, or J peel on turn, that allows us to get more value since we know our small bet sizing allowed those hands to float.

If we make a large cbet with AA here, get called and a K, Q, or J peel, we are likely not facing a light float that paired up when we bet turn and get called. We are at best facing a still high equity draw, and at worst we are crushed via set or 2p. As we pushed them too high into their continue range with the large bet.


Conversely, when we make a small cbet with TT and an A, K, Q, J peel......we are not in a good spot, as light floats are all over that area.

When we make a large cbet with TT and an A, K, Q, or J peel.....we are much less likely to be behind if we were ahead on flop. We are either facing a high equity draw or we were beat to begin with.

Yes. Should have mentioned that, my bad.

V3 99% knew it was a shove. V2 said all in as he threw his pile of chips out and V3 called before they stopped moving, H got a count but I guess he could easily have known it was less than $50.

At the time I thought it was possible he had Q9/J9 maybe even K9/A9 ... but I'm less sure he doesn't even think about raising those, and esp. bet all those on turn last to act.
The more I've thought about it the more I've thought V3 rarely has us beat, but to be fair the other times I saw him bet big were all on the turn where I assume he's trying to "charge all draws" or whatever.
Some chance he plays 87 this way ... maybe?

Kind of abused the spoil for this so to repeat: even though it's "small" relative to the pot I didn't/don't think V2 thinks he's bluffing.


FWIW I'm fine with flop checking mostly (or even all the time) against population or if any villain was better, but it felt better/easier here (against these villains) to get at least one fold (which worked great) and I have a pretty easy fold to any raise (hero fish bet for information ftw).

It’s such a small bet..V2 can have a bluff (you noted this in the profile), and V3 can have T8/88/77. You’re getting like 5:1 and you’re good here well more than 20% of the time. Nowhere near a 0EV spot like many others suggested above. Snap call.

This is live 1/2. These donks are calling with any gutter and any pair (including their Q9o, T8o, and 52s).
Flop check is burning money.

V3 checked turn last to act on a sopping wet board. Of course it’s live poker so anything is possible, but I would heavily discount 9x from V3’s range. V3 can obviously have all 87 but that’s just 16 combos.

I just can't imagine that the read (bluffs with small sizes) is backed up by a large enough sample. Moreover, it also makes a big difference whether the read was gathered in hu or multiway situations. I mean who would really consider bluffing here with this small size against 3 opponents? The only winning scenario I can see is when both have some picked up Tx combo, like T7dd and Tc8d.

How ended the hand?

Pot is what, $32~ and we bet $15? I really don't see how betting $20-24 is creating a disaster. People call one way too wide at small stakes on boards like this and can be quite inelastic for the first peel.

I still don't understand how this is a risky bet. The board isn't great for our range is correct, but again it's 1/2. The board is perfectly fine for our hand which we should be betting for value so we can move up to where they don't respect our betting range on this board. Additionally it's multiway and people will tend to play more straight forward.

Checked around like this I see short stacks show up with all kinds of stuff. Some of it beats you, some of it makes for a cute meme. Small sample size but we're still getting great odds to pad out errors.

You know what's completely missing here? Any reference at all to observed behaviors of $1-2 players!

You don't get a "Best Player in the Room" prize for deploying $10-25 analysis at a $1-2 table. You level yourself into missing value based on overthinking nut potential when your LP recreational opponents are just curious and feel like calling bets. Opportunity cost is real, so fancy play syndrome (FPS) is an expensive way to approach $1-2.

FFS these folks are calling almost anything and you likely have the best hand. Checking is pissing away value.

I really hope all the $1-2 aspiring pros overthink situations like this. It means more money in the rec players' stacks for us simpletons to target.

Exactly this. I can't even imagine a universe in which these three 1-2 villains collectively are going to go to town on us because we don't have enough strength in our checking range.

Anyway... to the HH.

Op, please state pot size at decision points/streets. Makes it easier for us to give better responses. (Also I don't understand your humor... So you're self-describing as a fish first time player who logs hundreds of hours? Sorry to ruin your joke, I'm just confused!)

Pre raise bigger. This game seems really loose. Experiment until 1-2 are calling you for more.

As played can probably bet a little more on the flop. It really depends on how elastic they are with flop calls with low equity hands though.


I'd bet the turn too. It's monsters under the bed syndrome to fear a 9 this much. If they have trips expect a goofy slowplay to the river (1-2s love springing that trap) then perhaps they get scared of a flush or straight or perhaps they tell you what they have. Anyway you still have value here and it probably goes in better to bet turn check river, planning to fold to a big bet, especially in a "protected" multiway pot.

As played on the river you've underrepped you hand. Bet/fold for about half pot.

As played after your check, as others have noted it's small in both percentage and absolute terms. (Good rule of thumb from Miller: $100 is a threshold of what feels like a "big bet"; this is not close.) Tens are plausible here. Something that beats you is also plausible.

The in between call makes this marginal, but that hand is much more likely to be a ten or worse. Could even be JJ or QQ.

So I think it's a somewhat marginal river call. I don't hate a fold, only because of the caller.

Makes perfect sense but the way people play trips makes no sense. It's like springing the trap on the river is some philosophical cornerstone of their strategy that they'll never give up, no matter how much value is lost.

@OP

Results (in a spoiler)?

As I suspected a table full of donks showing up with nonsense hands

V1 dumb check or most expert exploitative 1/2 check ever? Honestly don't hate it. I've started flatting in more spots if people can overcall.