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1/2 Help me extract max value - Hand #1 1/2 Help me extract max value - Hand #1

06-27-2015 , 10:48 AM
Hero hasn't been at this table very long. He's been fairly active, both as a result of having strong cards and by abusing limpers when in position. Image may be slightly LAG, but I don't know if anyone has noticed.

Villain is on Hero's immediate left. Older white guy, but not quite an OMC. Passive preflop, but has made some small raises or bet when checked to postflop. I have never seen his cards after when he's gone aggro postflop.

Effective stacks: $285

Hero has T T in UTG +2, opens to $10
Villain calls
Two other players call, blinds fold

Flop: ~$40 after rake

T 8 6

Hero bets $30, Villain raises to $75. Both other players fold.

Hero....shoves? Stop n' gos any turn? Any non-diamond turn? Clicks it back? Calls and c/r turn?
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06-27-2015 , 11:01 AM
Board is very wet, and a lot of cards can kill your action and/or leave you drawing to a boat. We want to get as much money in now as possible. Sadly, we're probably too deep to just shove it in, as that would likely look more bluffy than a smaller raise. At 100BBs effective, this is definitely what I do.

I think I click it back this deep, to let him think he still has some FE and give him a chance to GII now. If he flats, I open shove most non-diamond turns.
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06-27-2015 , 11:09 AM
Where I play, an o/r UTG+2 for $10 will often get a field of callers. In your position [8 left to act] you're a ~85% favorite to have the best starting hand. I don't want several callers with overcards calling.

There will be $142 in the pot after you match his raise, so I'd raise $140. I'm more concerned about V having raised this coordinated board than getting max value. Let's hope that your small bet pre didn't get a call with J9s, 97s or 75s.
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06-27-2015 , 11:33 AM
I raise. Board is too wet and too many ugly turns. Make it $125 or so and obviously call shove. A shove might look as if you are on a draw, though, so might be worth a try.
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06-27-2015 , 12:02 PM
Must raise, board is way too wet to mess around. Too many cards that will freeze the action even if villain doesn't hit. You don't want to see a diamond hit and villain get away from a lower set. When you call his raise pot will be $190 and stacks are not too much more, so shove.

If the board wasn't so wet and you could pin villain's range at over pairs/lower sets then flatting and letting villain bet turn might be better. On this board there are too many turn cards that will prevent villain from betting even if you can pin his range tightly.
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06-27-2015 , 12:29 PM
garrick, what's wrong with getting it in, looking like a bluff or a draw? isn't that ideal? what's the plan for a diamond on the turn if we don't gii now?
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06-27-2015 , 12:45 PM
Nothing is wrong with it. It's my preferred play if stacks are smaller. As is, though, it's just such a big bet that I think we lose our Villain way too often.

As for a diamond OTT, I prob puke a bit and then check/eval. If he checks back, I go for value OTR (assuming no 4th diamond). If he bets, I hope he sizes it small enough to give us odds (expressed plus implied, as it's almost always going in OTR if we hit) to draw for a boat/quads.
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06-27-2015 , 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
...I think I click it back this deep...
What does this mean exactly?
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06-27-2015 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
What does this mean exactly?
It means to min raise.

I'm 3-betting to $150, which sets up a trivial shove on all turns (if V were to flat).
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06-27-2015 , 06:47 PM
A min-raise would be to $120 correct? I like $150 and shoving most turns though.
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06-27-2015 , 09:00 PM
Min raise depends on the room. Most rooms, it is at least as much more as the last raise was. Since V raised the bet of $30 by $45 more, we'd have to add $45 additional, or $120. In some rooms, it must be as least as much as the last total bet, so $150.

I'd usually go $150, just because the bad recs who think $120 isn't a legal raise will often stop the action and argue, and that outs you as a thinking player choosing a bare min raise on purpose.
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06-29-2015 , 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
I'd usually go $150, just because the bad recs who think $120 isn't a legal raise will often stop the action and argue, and that outs you as a thinking player choosing a bare min raise on purpose.
That is an excellent comment! When that happens, after losing the argument, players often scream "bad kharma" and fold "out of principle". Better to go $150 and keeps things moving.
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06-29-2015 , 01:23 PM
Passive guy gets aggro, I'm guessing it's either 79 or an overpair like JJ-QQ. Possibly even KK. Slight chance of A8 along with the 5 flush draw/overs combos.

IMO he likes his hand so I think raising is the better option before a card comes and kills our action. Going back and forth between clicking it to $140 and shoving. I think shoving looks bluffier so given our image I rip it in.
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06-29-2015 , 01:45 PM
Results:

Hero read V to be quite strong here given that he was raising me small with two players behind left to act. Hero ranged V for lower sets, some flopped straights, and some Broadway flush draw type hands.

Hero also went back and forth between clicking it back or shoving--ultimately I decided that this V wasn't a raise/fold type, and I wanted to GII before a diamond killed my action or left me unsure how to play the turn. I shoved, and V folded 66 faceup (terribly so, IMO, although my friends disagreed).
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06-29-2015 , 01:52 PM
Wow that fold by v is turrrrrrrrible.

Please tell me you didn't show.
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06-29-2015 , 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie
Wow that fold by v is turrrrrrrrible.

Please tell me you didn't show.
Not a chance.
1/2 Help me extract max value - Hand #1 Quote
06-29-2015 , 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwolyswoND
Not a chance.
You should be able to abuse this guy in future hands when big $$$ is on the line.

Results notwithstanding I think you played the hand well.
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