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1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players 1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players

07-14-2022 , 01:29 PM
$1/2 game 8-handed. Effective stack is around $53 right now (one short-stacked villain)

Hero in BTN with Q9s

A few limpers ahead, hero raises it to $8, gets called by SB, UTG +1, LJ, pot is now $40

Flop comes 855 rainbow w/ 1 spade

SB bets $15, UTG +1 calls, LJ folds, hero calls w/ some backdoors and overcards. Pot is now $85

Turn comes 9 clubs, so now 2 clubs on the board

SB goes all in for $30, UTG +1 calls. What should the hero do in this situation? Pot is now $145, so $30 into $175 to call.
1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players Quote
07-14-2022 , 03:21 PM
On the turn do whatever you feel like. Somebody probably has you beat and likely your odds are not really good enough to justify a call but for those odds a call can't be terrible with TPGK.

The time to bail was on the flop when SB put in 1/3 of their stack and you had nothing. You had no reason to be calling at that point as SB is probably going to shove turn in that situation and only a few cards help you.
1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players Quote
07-14-2022 , 04:33 PM
Preflop: I'm just limping here and playing post-flop poker. But the raise isn't tragic.

Flop: SB donk is so 5x - heavy that I think H's call is spew here, particularly after UTG+1 flat calls. What kind of equity do we think we have here against sb donk and utg+1 flat?

AP, turn: SB pot committed. UTG +1 call is weak and probably capped at 8x or 5x with kicker trouble. But it's hard to find a call even at his price.
1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players Quote
07-14-2022 , 04:38 PM
raise pre should be more after 3 limpers to around 15 (or call/fold don't matter)

fold the turn, someone probably has a 5 or 2pair
1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players Quote
07-14-2022 , 05:32 PM
I set fire to my money and then crashed my car into a tree. Should I have done those things?

Oh wait, different question. I wonder what made you raise preflop with Q9 SOOOOTED, but OK, boys will be boys. But why on earth keep putting money into the pot when you whiff the flop completely? And I mean "completely"--with exactly how many flops would there NOT be "some backdoors and overcards"? (AKA "excuses")

On the turn, you're boned, which kinda illustrates why the call on the flop was so bad--you hit one of your ostensible six outs and it's probably no good. But yeah, getting 4.5:1, you have to call. The only reason it's even a halfway decent call is that you won't have to put any more money in.

Overplaying marginal hands, and hanging onto them for too long, gets you in these types of situations far too often. I hope you didn't call and win this pot--the lesson wouldn't have sunk in if that had happened. But since you're here, I suspect that you called and lost.
1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players Quote
07-15-2022 , 06:23 AM
Not a fan of the flop float. Maybe it's OK heads-up if you are deeper but multi-way against a shortstack?

Let's say the shortstack SB has an 8 and UTG1 has a draw... are you really looking to hit the 9 as an "out"?? The only draw on the board (67) completes on a 9. Further, 89 is one of the most likely 8s that your opponents can have, and you lose to that too.

If either of these guys have a 5 (seems pretty likely) you need running cards to win. Let's say the Ace of spades rolls off on the turn. SB Jams and UTG1 folds - can you even call the jam in this scenario? You do not have the correct price to call against a 5, and only barely have the correct price against a bare 8.

Not to mention it's possible one of these guys has a full house already, in which case you are essentially drawing dead on the flop.

Fold flop and find a better spot.

How much money does UTG1 have? Think that is a relevant factor in this hand as we will be playing a sidepot with that player if we call this turn.
1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players Quote
07-15-2022 , 06:55 AM
I play in those 1/2 games where people like to limp/call. Once more than 2 limped in you should treat it like a PLO 4 card pre flop hand and just limp behind and play post flop. if you decide to play this hand but don't want to play a big pot limping behind would be good especially if you think no one is going to raise. If you decide to raise you will have to raise big to get some of those limpets out of there. Once in a while they'll all fold. On the flop I am done with the hand.
1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players Quote
07-17-2022 , 01:55 AM
Don't raise preflop unless you think you have a good chance to take it down. You don't have room to move with 25bb. You want to make good one pair hands and get it in, I would raise 99+/AT+/KJ+ here. Q9 is just too weak for your purposes. If you're 100bb+, it's much better.

Flop call is pretty bad IMO.

Turn I don't think it matters much, you're almost certainly beat and you probably have like 2 clean outs but w/e you are getting ridiculous odds.
1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players Quote
07-17-2022 , 07:42 PM
I'm confused. You used your overcards to justify a really loose (i.e. spewish) call on the flop, then got cold feet when you hit one? Wasn't that what you were hoping for?

1. just fold preflop. You want longer implied odds to be mucking about with Q9s, even with position. In short stack poker, high cards matter a lot more than suitedness.
2. Just fold the flop. All you have are overcards you aren't that proud of, and a backdoor flush draw. You aren't nearly deep enough for the backdoor flush to matter, and your overcards are not that confidence-inducing.
3. Well, you got here. It's not even a half-pot bet. Of course you call. You didn't say how deep the other player was, but there's no point in raising. No better hand will fold and no worse hand will call.
1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players Quote
07-17-2022 , 10:20 PM
Grunch

"Effective stack" is only helpful heads up. Multiway everyone else still can have more money so everyone's stack size is relevant here.

Overlimp or make it bigger (3 + 1 * # limpers) with so many limpers pre depending on if people are fit/fold post flop or real tenacious calling stations. Overlimp if latter.

This is a silly hand on a silly flop so I'm gonna fold. You need to find a lot of hands to call on these boards heads up but multiway you need way more hand to continue. Your Q or 9 can be tainted outs, way more likely at least one player has a 5, if you turn a flush draw you can be caught between a better and a raiser paying too much to see a river.

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07-17-2022 , 10:21 PM
Don't be too depressed fisherry. Wining poker requires learning some difficult things. As vicious as these replies are, they are spot on.
1/2 game - Q9s against short-stacked players Quote

      
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