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1/2 Flop Topset against good Villian 300bb Deep 1/2 Flop Topset against good Villian 300bb Deep

10-23-2015 , 09:00 AM
Before this Hand i want to post a Hand against this Villian which is probably important.

Hero's stack about 1000 (was running very good) opend in late Position with QJs to 10
Villian 230 behind called on the Button. He is not good and not bad maybe a ABC tight player who playes break even. But in this session he played looser because he was 3 buy ins down. He lost a lot of pots against me.

Flop( 22): QJ6r
Hero checked because i wanted to checkraise him on the Turn and V lead for 15
Hero called.
Turn 2 Hero checked again and V1 lead out for 25 and Hero raised to 75. I really have a sizing Problem. After the Hand i knew it was to less but when somebody raises to flop at my Casino most of the times they do minraises and that leads me to raise too less What is the correct sizing here?

River is the 8 and hero bet 90 and he moved allin for 170. I knew he has the straight but can we ever fold here given the odds? Is the river a check behind? I hope the results doesn't change your opinion to this Hand.

2 Hours later following Hand went down with this Villian

Hero opend in MP to 10 with QQ after 1 Fish limped UTG.
Button called V from the Hand before called in the BB and Fish called. 4 way Flop

V stack 550
Hero: 900

Flop Qs3s4h: (40) checked to Hero who bets 30. Everybody folded and V1 raised to 60. Hero? I think we want to reraise. But again what size is good here?
1/2 Flop Topset against good Villian 300bb Deep Quote
10-23-2015 , 10:30 AM
The history hand is butchered. Bet flop. Bet turn. Bet/call river.

On the actual hand, why on God's green earth would you re-raise the flop when you have the nuts, it's dry, and you're in position? If he has a set the money's going in regardless. No need to fold out AQ/tricky KK/56/spades.
1/2 Flop Topset against good Villian 300bb Deep Quote
10-23-2015 , 12:17 PM
Do you have better reads on Villain? If you expect him to have a lot of bluffs in his range, and he will barrel the turn when he misses, call. If he is "one and done" re-raising is good. Is AQ or worse in his flop raising range?
1/2 Flop Topset against good Villian 300bb Deep Quote
10-23-2015 , 12:35 PM
A lot of result-oriented thinking in the first hand. After people lose with AA, those who are result-oriented always lament the idea that they didn't raise more somewhere in the hand, when the reality is that the optimal way of playing a hand isn't to win 100% of the times.

For your current hand, you have to ask the question: what is V's raising range in this spot?

Few underlying questions relating to the raising range:

1. How does V respond to flush draw board with strong range? If you don't have specific answer relating to V, consider other players in your pool.

2. How active has V been pre-flop? What are his frequencies relating to opening, limping, and calling of raises?

3. What are his previous tendencies relating to big pots?

Other thing to consider is that you're more than 250bb effective and you won't end this hand on the flop unless you drastically cut your EV by overbetting.

With just little bit of information, I would be inclined to raise to a size that I can shove on turn. 3bet to $150, shove turn.
1/2 Flop Topset against good Villian 300bb Deep Quote
10-23-2015 , 02:06 PM
Regarding the second hand. Best play is usually to 3b since a spade will shut him down if he has 33/44 and put you behind if he has a combo draw / spade draw. I'd make it $175 and then shove blank turns.

Another option, since we have position, is to call and shove over his turn bet on non-spade turns. This option is preferable if you have a strong read that he'll continue to be aggressive with combo draws on the turn.
1/2 Flop Topset against good Villian 300bb Deep Quote
10-24-2015 , 11:50 AM
shpanko, if V leads for $90 or so on the turn, you want to cram $490 more into him? You *want* him to fold?

I think clicking it back here to $150 is a good number.
He will be getting 25:9 on his money in direct odds, but that isn't enough to chase for 1 street. We are in position so we can control the turn action usually.
We can put in another $220 or so on the turn and then cram the river on most rivers giving him great odds to call off the remainder of his stack while till behind on the river.
Also the the slightly smaller sizing on the flop might give him the illusion that he has fold equity otf and he might do something stupid like 4bet jam on us. (Not often, but might as well give him the shot.)
1/2 Flop Topset against good Villian 300bb Deep Quote
10-24-2015 , 12:41 PM
I like raising. Give V a chance to spaz with a smaller set. I'm not sure sizing matters too much. You can CIB and see if he comes over the top or you can raise to $150 and go for value. Either ties him more closely to the pot
But I prefer raise to flat bc you give him more chances to make a mistake with bottom two pair or a small set and he's not folding a combo draw.
If he is drawing, we need to build this pot so we can get max value on the turn bc there's no river value against a draw. So, if my read is that he's going to repop, I'd raise small. If my read is he's going to just call any raise, I'm making it $120-180, and then betting 3/4 pot on the turn when checked to.
1/2 Flop Topset against good Villian 300bb Deep Quote
10-24-2015 , 06:22 PM
Here's how I usually look at spots like this.

If Villain has a hand that's good enough that he wants to play for stacks, it almost doesn't matter what we do because stacks are going in. (The exception might be if he has a good made hand and the turn is a spade.)

So I'm forgetting about the 44/33 component of Villain's range. I want to maximize value when Villain raised me with something else.

If he has Qx, he's probably raising for information, not to induce, and almost any 3bet will scare him off. Also we block a lot of Qx. So I think the 3bet sizing should not be designed to keep Qx in.

Instead, I think the 3bet sizing should be designed to make sure that if Villain is drawing, his entire stack is being bet on the turn. Our stack is 900, but Villain's is 550. He has put in 70 of it so far, so he has 480 left. If we were to just call, the pot would be 160.

So it definitely makes sense to cut up the remaining stacks into 2 pieces, one of which goes in now and one of which goes in on the turn. I like 165/295 because it keeps the turn bet under $300 while basically being a pot-sized raise on the flop. To clarify, that means 165 on top of his raise on the flop--so really 225/295. That's a basically full-pot raise on the flop, followed by roughly 3/5 pot on the turn. I would probably make my sizing close to this if not exactly this.
1/2 Flop Topset against good Villian 300bb Deep Quote

      
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