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1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw 1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw

07-12-2016 , 09:05 PM
This is my first time trying to remember a live hand like this, so I am going to reassemble it as well as I can...

1/2 NL Live

V1 is in the SB and has both V2 and Hero covered
V2 is in UTG +1 with about 200
Hero is UTG +2 with 197, sat down one orbit ago, has never played with either villain

UTG folds, V2 limps, Hero makes it $10 with AQss, folds to V1, V1 calls, V2 calls ($32)

Flop AhQd4d

V1 bets $15, V2 calls
Hero raises to $45, both villains call (167)

Turn is 9h, putting two flush draws on the board

Checks around to Hero - Hero goes all in with 142

My hindsight thinking is as follows:
1 - I am nearly 100% sure I have the best hand at this moment
2 - I am not giving a free card to either villain, figuring that at least one of them is on a flush draw
3 - My general approach is to bet at least 1/2 pot. In this situation a 1/2 pot bet makes me pot committed anyway.

However, at that moment I was basically scared of there being two flush draws on the board

Thoughts? Thanks in advance...

Spoiler:
Both villains folded, not sure if that was the best outcome...
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-12-2016 , 09:08 PM
I think I will begin writing down these hands after the fact; I can miss a hand or two in order to check on my strategy...
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-12-2016 , 09:18 PM
Seems like u played it fine to me. You got ur $$$ in on a non scare card allowing a bad price for all draws to continue. Any ace that called the flop chances are will still call your bet when the 9 hits the turn.

Although it seems like an overbet, with that stack it's best just to get it in and let an Ace X or big draw call, but it looks to me like you pushed out a weak 2nd pair or gutter draws.
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-12-2016 , 09:36 PM
Every street looks standard. Maybe a slightly bigger raise OTF (although the sizing OTR was pretty good).

The outcome was fine. Theoretically you'd like them calling with the wrong price - but taking down their collective equity is fine too.
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-12-2016 , 10:07 PM
Yeah, this is fine. In theory you could try to bet some smaller amount that still gives them incorrect odds to draw to whatever hand they are chasing like $95. If they miss they fold the river though, and if they hit you have to pay them off. Generally when dealing with weaker players you're better off making this big bet and hoping they call, that way you get their full stack when they miss. Definitely a bit bigger on the flop though, 55-60.
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-12-2016 , 10:08 PM
Flop raise should be bigger after the $15 gets a call. Turn card turns an OK flop into an actually dangerous board, with two flush draws and various straight draws.

With less then a pot sized bet and two unknown opponents shoving is fine. With a deeper stack and better reads you might be able to size this better. But with two opponents you will need to go $90-$100 anyways so with your stack just get it all in.
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-12-2016 , 10:36 PM
I appreciate the thoughts on the flop bet - when writing out the hand I was wondering that a bit myself (though the shove was my biggest question).

I definitely raised OTF wanting to build the pot and charge the draw(s) - it was OTT that I was either looking for folds or to really make one/both pay for the draw.

If I face a similar situation in the future I may think a bit bigger with the flop raise - even more so if I am sitting with either villain again.
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-12-2016 , 10:53 PM
Hand reading is something I am trying to work on a bit.

So - after both villains call my raise OTF I figure I could be facing Ax (with or without flush/backdoor flush draw), suited connectors, maybe some version of KJ.

Are there any other hands that call preflop and then my reraise here besides another AQ? Maybe KQhh?

Last edited by gnatie; 07-12-2016 at 11:02 PM.
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-12-2016 , 11:05 PM
A4 & 44 for sure. AK/AJ are also possible. Weaker aces get more and more likely to fold the flop, depending on how bad the players are.
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-13-2016 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss
A4 & 44 for sure. AK/AJ are also possible. Weaker aces get more and more likely to fold the flop, depending on how bad the players are.
I don't think too much about 44 mainly because I can't let the possible existence of a set slow me down here; it is certainly within either villain's range
but unless I get re-popped by one of them it's not going to hold me back.

It would not shock me at all to learn that V1 (SB) had A4, AT, or AJ. All three are hands with which many players would call my 5bb bet from the SB.

The pre-flop play makes me doubt AK. The SB only has my raise and a limper to contend with (maybe a bit of concern about what the BB will do), so if he has AK this is a great 3bet spot. Perhaps V2 is less likely to 3Bet AK after the first caller, but I think his limp and his flat call of V1's raise OTF makes it tough for me to put him on AK. Granted, I could be overestimating the players...
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-17-2016 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake
Every street looks standard. Maybe a slightly bigger raise OTF (although the sizing OTR was pretty good).

The outcome was fine. Theoretically you'd like them calling with the wrong price - but taking down their collective equity is fine too.


also this approach reduces short term variance by shutting out draws cold. Good for when you've sat down with only a few bullets in the belt. Not that I'd advocate that...


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1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-17-2016 , 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnatie
Hand reading is something I am trying to work on a bit.

So - after both villains call my raise OTF I figure I could be facing Ax (with or without flush/backdoor flush draw), suited connectors, maybe some version of KJ.

Are there any other hands that call preflop and then my reraise here besides another AQ? Maybe KQhh?


worse tp and some trappy sets of which there's only the one and nothing I'd worry about being so shallow


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1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-17-2016 , 12:52 AM
Any line other than the one you took would be FPS. NH!
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-17-2016 , 01:10 AM
Seems pretty standard here, might raise it up a little more on the flop so too set up shove on turn but either way given SPR on turn just rip it in and hope too get called by worst and draws

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1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-17-2016 , 02:13 AM
Bigger flop raise but the rest is mint. You can't let a free card come.
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote
07-17-2016 , 02:01 PM
All in also avoids some bad river spots. You want to avoid cases where you are the draw comes in and you are getting 5 to 1 or something on a call.
1/2 flop top 2 pair on a board with a flush draw Quote

      
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