Table is playing pretty loose/passive pre flop. A lot of limping with almost no limp/folding at this stage of the game.

Villain 1: UTG. Loose/passive pre, fairly fit or fold post. Doesn't get out of line. Although did see villain invest about 50BB with pure flush draw once before. Has about 190BB to start the hand. I have him covered.

Villain 2: BTN. Friend of mine sitting on my right. Limps fairly wide pre. He is shortstacked, started the hand with about 50BB.

Hero: Playing pretty tight ABC, winning mostly without showdown. Covers both villains.

Hero is dealt QT

V1 limps UTG, 2 limps, V2 limps BTN, Hero completed SB, BB checks.

I decided not to raise PF because I'm not getting anyone to fold so I'll be playing a bloated pot OOP with a meh hand.

Flop ($12) T 9 8

I lead $10, BB folds, V1 calls, 2 folds, V2 raises to $40, Hero ??

So here's the main decision. I have TP flush draw + gutshot. V2 has $58 behind. Against V2 I think my decision is pretty simple due to his short stack. The real decision is what do I do with UTG still left to act with $368 behind. The only hands that have me in bad shape are sets, and I don't think he would limp UTG with 88+. Against QJ I'm still 42%. Is it correct to shove when we are this deep with V1? If we call what is our plan for future streets?

Thoughts on pre flop as well? Anyone in favour of raising pre? Flop raise, shove or call?

V2's range here will always be strong. Mostly, it'll be sets (88, maybe some 99), 2-pair, straights (but we have a blocker to QJ), pair + flush draw, and flush draw + open ended straight draw.

V1's range is so wide, though. He can have a lot of big draws, slow played monsters, or hands with showdown value such as A9.

Against this range, we're doing somewhat well. We're already ahead of most draws with our top pair and we're drawing live against their hands that beat top pair.

I think you can raise this to $100 to get V2 all in, and we should be doing well against his range, while also allowing V1 who is a passive, fit-or-fold player to turn his hand face up. He will likely call with his draws, shove his monsters to protect them on this super wet board, and fold his weaker hands that we're likely not getting much value out of anyway on future streets.

I'd just call and never fold turns. We're most probably behindright now, but definitely have lots of outs. My main purpose is to possibly keep V1 in so we can squeeze a bit more value in the pot. Villain never raise folds here almost always so raising does basically nothing.

Duke think about what you're saying:

What's the point of making him show us his monster if we're not going to fold against it anyway? It actually does nothing since we're not folding, so our goal here should be to milk the most dead money into the pot possible.

So if we are never folding turns, wouldn't it be a better option to just shove this flop ourselves? I mean we only have TP at this point so do we really mind if V1 folds here? Obviously V2 is not folding and if V1 calls we are in good shape against pretty much anything he calls with. And with 175bb left to shove with we have a good amount of FE. Or is shoving 175bb not optimal? Obviously 100bb deep this decision becomes a lot easier.

Seems like a pretty good spot to flat flop, c/c turn. We want to keep any of V1's inferior draws or marginal hands in, given we're almost certainly behind V2 currently and he's never folding.

So I ended up shoving $353 over the $40 raise and V1 called with 6d7d. V2 called with T8o. Case T comes on the turn and I brick river. Who plays this the same way?

You have a monster 3-handed, I don't know why you wanna fold out the guy with all the moneys and is unlikely to have a great holding. Shoving doesn't look weak because shorty is never folding.

When you hit a set are you looking for FE? No. Your hand is even better 3-handed than it is heads-up, why would you want to fold out the extra $$$?

If we're calling anyway, why would raising here benefit us in any way? Unless you're sure V1 has KT or AT and you're facing another draw, there's no real reason we want to shut the third player out.

Good points. I guess I'm not comfortable giving up control in this hand. What happens when we just call flop and V1 calls behind and we brick turn. How do we proceed? Are we check/calling, check/folding brick rivers? Check/getting it in on the turn? Leading turn?

you never HAD control in this hand.

if we brick turn, our hand strength goes (way) down. We don't stay married to the hand - we adjust to our changed hand strength and make the best decision based on our information. Example: If we check and someone shoves, denying us odds, then we make the best decision and fold. If someone bets some tiny amount to "keep us in" with their flopped straight, then we stay in.

If you want practice flopping the world and then folding the turn, play some PLO.

You make a lot of sense. Thanks

Raise enough to get V2 all-in while pushing V1 out

raise to bluff out v1 of a bigger 10 or bottom 2

he never has a set or straight so i would try and bluff him off of a 1 pair and or get value fromna pair and straight draw he may have

lol.

great advice.

From the SB, your hand shouldve been significantly raised or folded pre if you think you'll have fold equity post-flop.

I also recommend learning PLO.

Sent from my LG-MS690 using 2+2 Forums