Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! 1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!!

03-07-2014 , 12:37 PM
$1/$2 NL:
50min / $200max

Hero ($230.00, Early 30's, been playing for several hours, card dead for the last hour or so, probably percieved as a tight, nit Not very talkative, wearing beats headphones and just focused on the grind)

Villian ($200ish, Mid 20's, Tourney player, who busted out of a earlier tournament and decided to play cash, Was just stacked in a previous orbit when 3 bet AJ of clubs to 40.00 in LP and UTG called with 22... Flop was 4 J 9 of spades, and he jammed all in, UTG called with the 22 and turned a set. Player rebought and is still visibly steaming.. Regardless of this Villian has been opening very often as opposed to limping, and its usually 8 or 15... 8.00 is any 2 cards, and 15.00 is geared towards 88+ - AJs+)

UTG + 1 limps, Villian raises to 8.00 in the cutoff, Hero has A3 on the button.. Hero calls..

Flop: A 3 7

UTG +1 Checks, Villian bets 30.00, Hero Calls, UTG+1 folds

Since villain has been cbetting quite frequently and is visibly still tilting from a previous hand, I elect to smooth call to keep air in his range, hoping he'd fire another bullet on the turn and also so UTG+1 comes along with any ace,

Turn: 9

Villian bets 30.00, Hero min-raises to 60.00

At this point, IMO villain still has a lot of air in his range, I decide to min-raise hoping villain sees it as weak and Jams, Villian tanks for a good minute and calls

River 10

Villian grabs his stack of reds and Jams... I believe around 145ish..

HERO????????????
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 12:52 PM
well he may be steaming, but it's a good bluff card when the river completes the straight and back door flush draws. your turn raise was weak: it allowed the draws to profitably call, and nullified your information advantage IP. as played it's a fold. your two pair is now a bluff catcher, and you don't have enough equity against his range to make the call.
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 12:59 PM
When we take a passive line on the flop, and only min raise the turn, especially to a steaming villain, we allowed this difficult decision to develop. A bigger turn raise is where we could've gotten the stacks in with more pressure on him and less on us.

If he has A9/AT/TT... Well... That's the breaks.

Also, if he started with $200ish and you with $230, we put in $8 PF, $30 otf, and $60 ott, we should only have about $102 effective remaining for the river in a pot that is ~$200. Unless your count was wrong about starting stacks.

Edit: I don't think this is a clear call or clear fold here, with the fact that the river completed a back door flush and straight draw, it is a great card for him to bluff on. It becomes villain dependent, have you seen him take this line as a bluff before? Does he still have the body language of someone tilted? Or does he seem interested in this hand? Tough tough spot. I think mistake in the hand was not getting more money in sooner. If he was tilted, then raising the flop might still keep "air-ish" type hands in and we can pound the turn.
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 01:04 PM
Your min-raise on the turn is really bad. Villain needs to call $30 to win over $160 + implied odds.

Raise flop for value.
Turn, as played raise larger for value.
River, easy fold.
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 03:47 PM
Smooth calling on the flop here is bad. Your primary goal should be to stack him when he has AT-AK, not milk his air for one more bet. Raise to $80 or so and shove the turn.

Even when he does have air, he doesn't barrel the turn anywhere close to 100%, steamed or not. There are no reasonable draws you can have. After that flop action on that texture, many opponents will put you on a weak ace and shut down.

Sorry his AT sucked out on you.
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 04:04 PM
Raise flop to $90/shove turn/easy game. Flatting flop and min raising turn is bad.
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 04:08 PM
Is this heads up? Did Villain bet $30 into a $20 pot? Need clarification.

I like your explanation for calling the flop.

Please don't min-raise. I have no idea what's in the pot, but I'm probably raising to 100 or so and happily getting it in.
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 04:09 PM
As played, fold the river, but you shouldn't have arrived in that spot IMO.
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 05:13 PM
Sorry, somehow I missed the part about him usually raising to $15 instead of $8 with AJs+. I'm still raising the flop though.

Have you seen him fold a decent hand face up? Or have any other reason to think he can get away from top pair 100bb deep?

After getting called by UTG and sucked out on in that 22 hand, I view his flop sizing (which I think is important) into the two of you as more weighted towards a vulnerable and entitled Ax than complete air. And 100 BB deep I don't expect him to fold it.
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 06:12 PM
Results?
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 07:26 PM
I don't mind the call OTF. But OTT I am raising much larger, hoping to get stacks in on the next bet. Here on the river is tough, as everyone says it's a good card for him to bluff on + the description of V makes this have some value to calling. I still lean towards a fold though.
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 09:13 PM
Also of note in this hand is something I often think about, if this board had been a flush draw board, with the ace not being of the flush suit, would you have been more likely to raise the flop to charge the possible TP+NFD combos? I hope so. Raise the flop, make him put the money in drawing, when the turn looks safe on a flush draw board I'd go ahead and jam the turn to deny him odds/implieds. Not that I don't want him drawing... I just want him drawing incorrectly. If he folds TP+NFD on the turn... He have up quite a bit of equity against your hand anyways, so still not a bad result.

I often think it is best to just raise 2pr+ almost regardless of texture as it gives more FE to those times when you are raising combo draws/air. We need to show that our raises should not be taken lightly. And it works both ways, we should often be raising 14+ out draws also, both for value, and for increased value for those times we flop a set and can go ahead and raise the flop to get stacks in.

Obviously being in position is key as when we raise the flop with our monster draws, when we brick the turn vs sticky players that we don't want to barrel against we can check back to realize our equity from our monster draw as well to massage the pot when we have nuttish hands.
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-07-2014 , 09:18 PM
raise the turn much larger (or even shove)
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-08-2014 , 01:50 AM
Thanks everyone for the comments, I appreciate the responses. As most people agreed the turn should have been raised more, Looking back I should have perhaps raised the flop hoping to extract value from AK,AQ or any other random Ax hand, My initial read was right as far as the villain having air in his range, For some reason I tend to screw myself when I try to play the hand 'tricky' or try to trap someone, the only person i usually end up trapping is myself and this hand was another instance of that...

After tanking for a minute, I eventually called and was shown K2 for a backdoored nut flush..

oh well, live and learn I guess..
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote
03-08-2014 , 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadNines9999
Thanks everyone for the comments, I appreciate the responses. As most people agreed the turn should have been raised more, Looking back I should have perhaps raised the flop hoping to extract value from AK,AQ or any other random Ax hand, My initial read was right as far as the villain having air in his range, For some reason I tend to screw myself when I try to play the hand 'tricky' or try to trap someone, the only person i usually end up trapping is myself and this hand was another instance of that...

After tanking for a minute, I eventually called and was shown K2 for a backdoored nut flush..

oh well, live and learn I guess..
River is a fold. Exactly what hands are you beating? If you think V plays turn and river like this with AJ-AK you are crazy.
1/2: Flop 2 pair, facing river shove!! Quote

      
m