This is from a 1/2 game at Foxwoods on Saturday night, it's late in the evening and villain and I have been playing together for about 8 hours. We haven't tangled much, but when we have I've mostly gotten the best of him, using my position on him (he's 2 seats to my right) to slow play monster hands before extracting major value on the river.

About 15 minutes prior to this hand, I won a big one from him when I called his flop lead with JT on AQ8, then just called his turn lead on a K turn (giving me broadway) then made a monster raise on a blank river, which he called and was steaming. The very next hand, I made a river bluff which he snapped off with bottom pair in a fairly small pot, but I could tell he called because he was steaming and wanted revenge.

On to the hand:

Villain (CO): $426
Hero (SB): $900

Three players limp including Villain, Hero completes in SB with Q6.

Flop: Q67
Pot: $10

Hero leads out for $10, EP limper calls, Villain pops to $35, Hero 3-bets to $100, limper folds, Villain insta-calls.

Turn: A
Pot: $220

Hero leads for $105, Villain thinks for what was probably a full minute before announcing all-in for $219 more.

Call/fold?

I think we're smoked

I would never complete Q6 fwiw.

I know it's 1/2 and it's only a dollar but if you were passing a sewer would you throw a dollar down into it

Not sure why you didn't take another slowplay line as it had been successful in the past and helps you pot control on ugly run-outs. In any case, I can't really think of too many hands that make sense that beat us. I mean, maybe he has Q7 suited or 77, although I think most players aren't flatting a 3 bet on this flop at 1/2 with either of those hands. We block 66 so that is also unlikely (although I suppose we also sort of block 67). I expect that you will see Axhh and 67 often enough that this is probably a call.

The difference here is that I'm out of position, whereas in the past I was able to allow him to lead the action and make my calls look weak.

My intention on the flop was to 3-bet/fold, FWIW.

I'd call since villain seems tilted. You would think villain would have raised in the CO with a pocket pair. Villain's most likely holding is 76 or some kind of combo draw.

Side note, I don't think I'd ever complete in the SB with a hand like Q6. Just fold pre.

If you make correct decisions on later streets, it cannot be a bad decision to call $1 at 9:1 pre flop.

this is wrong. it has been discussed over and over again on this forum, and while I don't agree with some of the posters here who think you need AA, KK or AK to complete, Q6 is not worth it at all.

As played, I am probably calling but im not at all happy about it

Grunch wow fold that trash from the SB. This is a huge leak and will get you into tough spots where we are layng out of position. Damn I hate playing out of position.

As played I don't see how we can call this turn shove. The scare card A popped up and V doesn't even care even with us 3-betting the flop and leading into the A turn. Maybe he has A7hh with the flop "insta-call." I guess V could be tilt spewing, this is a tough one.

PF: I have do idea why we are completing the SB with an atrocious hand. Many complete their SB way too often. Just fold.

F: (5) handed. Pot is $10. SPR is 42. Love the lead out for pot, but I don't like 3! here. Yes, we have two pair, but I don't think our hand is good enough for "big hand, big pot".. Insta-call likely means that he is on a draw.

T: Pot is $220. Effective stack has $324 left. We lead for half pot; we've put in almost half of the effective stack. Given our recent history with this villain, noting that he seems out to get to us, and noting that we put half the effective stack in the pot, I don't really think we should be folding when he shoves here. When we raised the flop, we should of known we were going with the hand because any decent size bet on the turn basically commits us (IMO).

He probably has a hand like A9hh that he limped with, did the "insta-call" tell on the flop, and now has picked up an Ace. He likely feels good here.

I'd call.

Snap call. 2 FDs out there, 1 SD and an over to the board peels. That gives villain a million reasons to commit here.

Think about what hands villain is flatting your 3bet with on the flop and jamming over your turn lead. If villain had a set he would have gone with it on the flop. I would be surprised if he continued with Ax hands on the flop to give him a better two pair. The only one he would have continued with is AQ but he prob would have raised preflop.

My guess is he could have Ax with the FD and hit his Ace on the turn.

Completing is somewhere between bad and meh.

I like the lead on the flop but not the 3-bet. Are we looking to play for 220BB w Q6? I think that was your big mistake in the hand. As played, you committed yourself and almost have to call. I'm not feeling very good about it though and I wouldn't say it's a cooler if he has better, more like a bad situation we got ourself into.

That makes sense. I think it is a call.

That being said, if you think he is out to get you, it might be worth considering flatting flop and letting him value own himself on turn river. We still may find ourselves in a guessing game spot, but probably not for 220 big blinds.

Unless you think he is leaving (which is unlikely given you've both proven yourselves to be somewhat degen sitting together for 8 hours) you might be able to find a better spot to play for stacks.

Pre Flop: Fold. I get that it is only a dollar more, but your hand is crap and the only flop you want to get is trips or two pair and even when you get these hands you are still OOP.

Flop: I like the lead out here. The limper calling probably means he's on some sort of draw here or he may have TPGK idk since no info was given on him. The villain reraise idk what to make of it. I feel like he thinks you are bluffing here and just trying to steal the pot considering that he's steaming now so I think you should flat. The only problem I see with flatting is that the limper could now call with better odds than before and you have to worry about being OOP against 2 villains instead of 1. The other choice, reraising to 100 practically commits you to your hand here and I would hate to be committed to Two Pair when the SPR was around 40. Its really a hard choice here, but folding is definitely not an option.

Turn: You bet and he reraises all in. I think you have to call this everytime just because of how large the pot is and you've basically committed yourself to the pot. Folding here would likely be a mistake. The only problem I see is I don't know what hands your villain would play this way If he had queens or AKh you would've heard about it preflop. He could be holding 77,66,98h,54h, 76s is likely, and a weak suited ace is small possibility here. The only problem I see is would he 4-bet some of those hands (his monster draws) or would he four bet his sets. If he'd usually 4-bet his sets on the flop you should definitely be calling all in on the turn everytime. If he'd 4-bet all his big draws on the flop I think you should probably shut down on the turn because he likely has you beat here with a set.

I 3-bet the flop because it helps me define his range. If he has me beat, he's always 4-betting over the top. If I have him beat, he's calling a lot of the time.

By just calling, I'm now in an awful position where his range is super wide. He will likely continue betting on the turn and river, and I will just have to call it off blindly. And if I did have him beat on the flop, there are so many scare cards on the turn that would prevent him from betting, thus limiting the value I'd get against his worse hand.

Note that at the time, I didn't even think about the possibility that the original $10 caller would call the $35, but that's another good point -- I don't want to play this pot 3-handed.

I think it's a mistake to think he "always" does anything. He only needs to 4-bet if you guys are so deep that he can't get stacks in by the river without doing so. IMO, while there is a chance he's spazzing because of the history, I think you are overplaying your hand here in a limped pot.

Call. Committed on a draw heavy board. After flop 3bet and turn lead, folding is no bueno.

1. It's an easy fold pre-flop
2. 3-betting to find out where you're at on the flop is not the correct decision
3. Your hand plays fine multi-way on the flop
4. You way over-played your moderate strength hand on the flop/turn.

I never said I was 3-betting to "find out where I'm at." I said I 3-bet to define his range, which is a huge difference.

Here's the way I look at it: When I'm ahead on the flop, how do I make more money in the hand? If I just call, which turns can I confidently check-call? And then again on the river? Why is he continuing to fire if his hand is so weak that I'm ahead?

When he raises me on the flop, I'm giving him credit for KQ, Q7s, Q6s, 67, 77, 66 and flush/combo draws. AQ and QQ would have raised pre. After my 3-bet, if he comes over the top all of his hands crush me -- Q7, 77 and 66, and maybe A7. If he just calls, he probably doesn't have any of those hands -- his range is now limited to KQ, Q6, 67 and flush/combo draws.

Based on that analysis, I concluded that the only hand he was beating me with when he shoved the turn was A7, though I will say I was giving him credit for that hand above all others. He wouldn't shove with KQ, Q6 or 67. So while I wasn't happy calling into what I thought for sure was a hand that was crushing me, I had to stick it in getting 3:1.

The river was a blank 2 and he mucked. Guessing he had like T8 or something.

Call...Its coolerish if your beat here..its only like $100 more...snap call

I actually think this is the most important part of the 3 bet and why Im starting to like it better than calling (plus you insure that you won't be playing this hand 3 handed). If you have the read on your villain and you know they aren't capable of slowing down here with their big hands and they aren't capable of shoving a draw here then I like the play. You clearly had the read and went with it so I do like the play for that. Obviously if your read was wrong you'd have to reevaluate how you view this villain.

Pre = Fold
Flop = Bet/Call 3-bet
Turn = Bet/Call

You basically got what you wanted here ... a shove from V. His tank is really making me want to call for sure, but I think we knew we were calling anyway. It could be an act .. or he was considering a set from you with Ax-2pr. But I think we cross fingers with a call here OTR.

I agree that the 3-bet OTF can go both ways. When in a hand against someone 'out to get us' I wouldve let him take the betting lead and c/r the Turn here depending on the pause/betting time he took to lead out OTT. If we were playing into a passive crowd then, yes, we need to force the action with a 3-bet here.

We flopped a wonderful hand, but it's now vulnerable to quite a few counter-cards going forward with the Ace out there. I cant 'scold' you from doing it since I made a ton of money with K-rag/Q-rag today since it was 'hot'. But I did do a lot of pot control whether IP or OOP in order to keep the K-med-kicker hands in the hand. GL

Is it? Sounds the same to me except one is buzz words we like to say and one is fishy words we don't.

I guess when I think of the term "find out where I'm at" I think of people who bet with the intention to either fold to a raise or to get their opponent to fold worse hands, like when they raise with TPTK on the flop. That kind of bet is highly -EV and accomplishes nothing. My 3-bet, on the other hand, was designed to get max value from my opponent when he has a weaker hand, or fold if he showed further aggression. That's the difference.

I agree they are all buzz words, though.

I think it sounds like you just defined both phrases in the exact same way.