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1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop 1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop

06-23-2016 , 07:13 AM
Thanks to everyone, this thread has really cleared up why I felt I played the hand so badly. Learned lots of stuff in here that I'm pretty sure will help me play better in the future. Anyway, here are the gross results:

Spoiler:
Hero reluctantly folds. V shows Q 2 for either bottom pair or Q-high, I don't exactly recall.

Hero, now playing for 8+ hours and down a little over $300, immediately racks up and takes remainder of stack to Palomino Club. Yeah, pretty sure that was the highest (least negative) EV move...
1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop Quote
06-23-2016 , 05:45 PM
By sheer coincidence, I used the exact same play last night. (Board was clubs and my hand was diamonds). My pair of deuces was good, apparently.
1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop Quote
06-24-2016 , 05:18 AM
First you have to understand why players donkbet. It's usually 1 of 2 reasons

1) they want to see where they're at, meaning they have some kind of middle pair and they want to see what you do when they bet. If you raise then that lets them know they're beat so they can comfortably fold. If you call, well it could mean anything really. Maybe you have a slightly better pair, maybe you have a draw. Regardless none of these are good reasons to donk, it's just why fish do it.

2) They are trying to set the price for their own draw. This is typical when they donk weak like this opponent did. I'd put him on something like AJ with Jack of clubs. He knows you probably have a good hand, and he's hoping that he can control the betting by getting you to just call $20 instead of risking you making it $50 on the flop and $100 on the turn. He doesnt want to pay that much money, and in his worldview of poker any bet commands equal respect, so he probably thinks you have no choice but to just call his $20.

As a side-note, on occasion someone will donkbet a flopped monsters like bottom set on a 653ss board or something because they know multiple opponents may be drawing and they dont want to risk letting the pot get checked through. In such a case they wont donkbet small though, they'll donkbet huge, usually near full pot, sometimes even overbet if the pot is too small and a pot bet wont accomplish anything.

Anyhow I typically raise donkbets as a bluff due to reasons mentioned in article 1 (basically they want to see where they're at, so I'll tell him "you're behind!"), and call them with showdown value for reasons in article 2 (since I know I can beat their 77 I might as well give them false hope that it is possibly still good). However since this board is so wet I go ahead and raise anyway since I put him on camp 2 trying to set the price for a draw.

I'm probably getting it allin on this board just because it connects too well with his 3bet flatting range. I dont think he'll ever fold any flush draw that includes a pair, especially top pair.
1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop Quote
06-24-2016 , 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by javi
First you have to understand why players donkbet. It's usually 1 of 2 reasons

1) they want to see where they're at,...

2) They are trying to set the price for their own draw.
Um, so I guess the lesson of this hand is that sometimes players don't do what players usually do? I'm just trying to keep up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
I would basically always raise/fold flop.
WORD.

Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 06-24-2016 at 08:15 AM.
1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop Quote
06-24-2016 , 06:08 PM
Raise/fold flop is ridiculous, what are you even putting him on that raises UTG, flats a 3bet, donks flop with a fishy bet and shoves over us when we raise?
1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop Quote
06-25-2016 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by javi
Raise/fold flop is ridiculous, what are you even putting him on that raises UTG, flats a 3bet, donks flop with a fishy bet and shoves over us when we raise?
A hand better than ours. It's elementary, my dear Watson.
1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop Quote
06-25-2016 , 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten
A hand better than ours. It's elementary, my dear Watson.
I direct you to the following from another thread KK in the BB

Quote:
Originally Posted by javi
Fish are reactionary players. They are an "in the moment" type of player......A big bet forces a fish to evaluate the board and say "how did I lose?" rather than trying to assess a reasonable hand range you could have. I've had fish put me on ridiculous straights that I didnt have just because I made a big value bet with something else.
Dont put people on "hands better than ours".
1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop Quote
06-26-2016 , 06:34 AM
You have now descended into nonsense sloganeering.

Since hero's hand, in this case, won't often improve, in a relative way, if hero's hand is second best, hero is drawing very dead. On the other hand, any villain, who isn't unconscious, who is both behind to hero and willing to go to the felt, must be drawing quite live.

Going to the felt when one is either way behind or slightly ahead is about the worst poker a person can play.

Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 06-26-2016 at 06:41 AM.
1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop Quote
06-26-2016 , 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten
Going to the felt when one is either way behind or slightly ahead is about the worst poker a person can play.
Agree w this - it's a SAWB spot, no need to die on that hill.
1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop Quote
06-26-2016 , 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten
You have now descended into nonsense sloganeering.

Since hero's hand, in this case, won't often improve, in a relative way, if hero's hand is second best, hero is drawing very dead. On the other hand, any villain, who isn't unconscious, who is both behind to hero and willing to go to the felt, must be drawing quite live.

Going to the felt when one is either way behind or slightly ahead is about the worst poker a person can play.

Wtf are you talking about? "Any villain"? What the hell is "Any villain"? Players such as yourself? Some generic prototype of everyone you presume to be accurate upon sitting down? All I see are a bunch of baseless assumptions based upon no evidence at all, other than your gross generalization that villain "isnt unconscious". Ok, well what if he is unconscious? Did you ever consider the possibility that villain is a fish? It sounds to me like you are just projecting your own play tendencies upon him, and since you would never bet this flop with air, neither can he.

Going to the felt? At no point are we facing an allin or even close to it so far. I asked you what you put villain on and you dont have a clue. Villain donked $20 with 300 something behind. Thats where the decision point for this hand really began. Even then as played at no point have we been threatened with his entire stack. If he did then maybe we could reconsider, but then that would be a completely different hand wouldnt it?

And I guess the fact villain turned over Q2 is just me being results oriented. If I were in this hand with AK I would have gotten lucky with such a call.

Last edited by javi; 06-26-2016 at 08:15 PM.
1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop Quote
06-27-2016 , 09:19 PM
javi are you saying to just call all 3 streets? Maybe BadlyBeaten thought you meant raise/shove on the flop.
1/2 facing donk,donk,donk on monotone flop Quote

      
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