9-handed 1/2 game with a bunch of good ol' boys. Literally. With the exception of a couple of old guys who are pretty tight, this is the loosest, most passive game I've ever played in. They will limp call up to $15 w/ almost any hand. They will call flop w/ any straight draw, flush draw (almost no matter how small), middle pair, etc. They will call w/ top pair / no kicker. It is insane. They occasionally bet when they hit, but it's mainly a calling fest. A couple of the tight guys will limp AK, but most players are raising JJ+. Stacks between $100 and $300.

Hero: MAWW, CO, ~$300. I'm the only woman who plays in the games around here. I usually play PLO (two or three of these guys play PLO with me). The players who know me well think I am tight and aggressive -- I am one of the more aggressive players. However, some of these guys don't know me, including V, and I have played very few hands.

V: MAWG, SB, ~$300. He is one of the two players I don't remember playing with before. I have seen him call flop with a gutshot (he had something like 64) and hit turn. He bet river and got paid. He called me with second pair, made two pair on river, but checked vs. a couple of us -- he might have expected me to bet, but I'm not sure. He had K8 and the K came on the river. Both of those hands were raised pre and he was in EP (I think he was blinds for both).

OTTH:

EP younger guy raises to $10. This could be any hand (22+, 67s, QT, big pair, etc.). Three callers, H calls w/ As8h (almost never folding an A at this table considering who's in the hand, and the tight guys had folded, but there is no reason to raise), SB and BB call.

Flop (~$65): Ac7d5s, checks to H who bets $25. SB, EP, and HJ call.

Turn ($165): Ac7d5s 8d. Checks to H who bets $75. SB calls, others fold.

River ($315): Ac7d5s8d Jc. SB checks. H? Should I put in a small value bet or just check behind?

Feedback on all streets welcome.

You have about $190 left and pot is $315. Just value bet the rest of it.

If you value own yourself it will be a lesson not to flat an EP raise with a trash hand like A8o regardless of your table dynamic preamble.

Jam for value from almost every other two pair combo imaginable.

Against described passive opponents, I think jamming river has value.

I also think PF is a mistake. A6-A9o specifically just runs into more trouble than they're worth, and can't make a 2-card straight.

I always tell myself when I'm sitting 1/3 "these opponents are soooo terrible, I'm sooooo skilled I can play these trash hands and outplay them and win."

When really the money comes from patiently waiting for and playing better cards, in position, than the opponents are playing.

So, you're losing to sets, altho JJ likely out due to him just calling. You lose to 64, 69, 9-10. You lose to AJ.

You are beating pairs of Aces, 2 pairs such as 57, 78, A5, A7, maybe J7. You also beat any 6 for an OESD.

I think checking behind is the best play, because there are enough hands that beat us that are in the range, compared to what may call a value bet. Just my thought tho.

FWIW, I rarely play hands like A8o, but the hands I'd seen show up at this table were atrocious. Seriously. They are calling raises w/ any two cards. I was in position, and I had been so card dead I was happy to see an A. LOL. not a good reason, but still. I had been folding, folding, folding, even on BU/SB w/ the entire table limping, I was folding. And the only tight/passive players who might limp w/ a big A were out.

And here we are

The only possible reason to call a raise pf with A8o pf is that you're going to get paid off on the river with 2 pair. If you aren't jamming here when nobody has shown any strength in the hand, you should have never called pf.

Most / all the hands that beat you probably play differently except maybe AJ. Plenty of worse can call.

Yeah, this. I turbofold PF and don’t think twice about it. But I also jam this river for value and don’t think twice about that, either.

Even with the smallish flop bet, this pot got pretty big. I would definitely bet the river, it's just a question of how much. $190 all-in seems reasonable but I can see a much wider range (A6+, weaker 2pr) calling $100 without much hesitation.

River is a slam-dunk value bet, at least 125.

<GRUNCH>

Flop: I like the smallish bet. Get rid of the riff-raff, no one appears to have hit this hard. No flush draws, and the only straight draws are 86, 64, & 43 (double gutter).

Turn: We now have top two on a call-happy table. So, I like the bet, but think we could go higher (100-125, for both value and protection). SB calling is a bit surprising...he could have 64, I guess, but he might also be calling with a worse two pair, a worse ace, some kind of pair/straight draw hand, or possibly a slow-played set.

River: V shouldn't have T9, given his flop call. So, the turn analysis should hold, unless he has specifically AJ. We have 190 back, I believe. Stack sizes are tricky. I bet, maybe 125 as played, or maybe shove (knowing this is a big bet for a 1-2 game). If he shoves for the remainder if I bet smaller, I call it off and reload at this juicy table if necessary.

+1 to this.

Every time you don't value bet the river a small puppy dies. Don't be a puppy killer - All In.

That poor puppy I am an idiot. I checked behind and of course MHIG. Of course it is. He would have bet w/ a straight/set and I'm only behind AJ. It made me sick. Granted, I don't think an all-in would get called by him, but I think $75 - $100 does get called. These guys just don't like to gii w/o the nuts -- it's more mental than actually playing poker. They do not like putting their stacks at risk, but they don't seem to mind playing short.

Two fun stories from the night vs. two of the tight players who know me and play a PLO with me: OG1 raises to $15, I 3bet to $50, he calls. Flop is 588, I shove ~$150 and he folds QQ saying I must have AA.

Even better: Bunch of flats, I raise from CO to $12 w/ QQ, a couple callers. Flop Q5c6c, checks to me, I bet $15, OG2 check/raises to $50 w/ about $70 behind. I put him all in and he folds KK! LOL.

Sometimes having a tight image pays; sometimes it doesn't!

Yes bet your suckout for sure, like $100 to get a crying call from Ax. BTW I dont think you should be limping pre with this hand, ever. The real value in loose passive games is the huge RIO spots fish find themselves in, not these marginal TPNK hands. A8o is the kind of hand they call with, not you. You want to be in there with AJ so you can get paid off by A8. Sure, maybe you get like a little bit of value from random TP's but you're also valueowning yourself sometimes when they nitroll AK not to mention the non-showdown losses you're suffering paying $10 a pop to see a flop.

It's with a very strong opinion that if we're not value owning ourselves at least once per session vs these terrible live stations then we're not value betting enough.

I agree with you, but I literally did this once this session, and this was the hand. I got lucky, but should have made more. No idea what he had, though. I was up until the QQ vs. AA hand, then left early exactly even

Meh, debatable. The most likely hand a fish has is weak pair / draw. Fish think calling 2 streets to setmine the river is a viable drawing hand. In these situations all they're ever really good for is the flop/turn. If they havent improved by the river they just give up. I think it's perfectly fine to go for thin value on earlier streets and then check the river with all your isolation / blind steals that ended up making TPNK and nothing else. There's nothing worse than betting A5o on a AQ6J6 runnout just to see them check/raise you and yep, they called down with K6o.