I am posting this due to a disagreement between me and a buddy playing in the same game.

Effective stacks are $250-300~

two limps
Hero raises to $15 in MP w/ KQ

BB calls, both limpers call

Flop: K86

check
check
Hero bets $40


Action ended up going raise shove shove and I folded but my buddy thinks I bet too big on the flop. He's been playing live a lot longer than me and is a winning player but my betsizing seemed pretty damn standard at just over 1/2 pot.

Should I be betting less than 1/2 pot here? I would assume it encourages more drawing with bare hearts and worse K's and allows us the chance to bet again on the turn on non 's but if these guys are calling this betsizing with the same hands why not bet this amount?

Pot looks to be $61 on flop. I would bet $35-$40 here if I bet at all. Betting less then $35 is just encouraging draws. Your last to act on flop, and it should be 3 checks to you. If that is the case I would actually check behind here a lot. Against 3 callers somebody has a flush draw and is likely to call on flop. I would rather wait till turn and see what the situation is. We can bet any non-heart/non-ace turn with much better equity and bail cheaply if the turn is bad or there is too much action.

If you're going to bet, your bet size is perfectly fine. No idea why you'd want to bet very small. That doesn't make much sense to me. What's your buddy's rationale? Don't think he has one...

To throw out another line all together - 4-way on the flop on a monotone board with TPGK, I think a check is fine. There probably is value to be had with a bet, I don't know. But I obviously don't want to stack off here or build a monster pot.

The pot is already $60 on the turn, and a bet and a call or two create a massive pot - it easily and often grows to $140+ on the turn. I don't think it's a super profitable situation though it's certainly a hugely volatile situation.

I don't know if checking just manages volatility with a one-pair hand on a monotone board or whether it's the more profitable play, but I think it's my play here. Check/decide. Obviously if it's not monotone, bet for value.

I can agree with almost everything that is said here but I think its important to understand that these are passive droolers I'm playing against. I can bet/fold these situations to death and get value from a lot of hands. If players in the hand are more aggressive than I'm more in line with the check back.

I would just check flop and see what the turn action looks like.

Yeah I think you're probably right. I agree there's value against droolers.

Thing is, if you bet flop and getting 1-2 calls is pretty standard, etc., you really need to do so with the full intention to commit on non-heart turns, and given stack sizes, that probably means bet flop, jam non-heart turn. Of course, if someone raises the flop, it's bet/fold.

I'm not sure either of those scenarios (bet/fold flop if raised, or commit on non-heart turns if called) is super awesome. Our SPR here is a bit more than 4. Seems like a pretty awkward stack situation on a monotone multi-way pot.

This is terrible, you're missing a ton of value here.

There isn't a right or wrong to bet-sizing, but I am going to have to agree with your buddy. It's not that betting 3/4th to full pot is bad, but you really have a hand that wants action from hands you're dominating. Your holding a bet/fold hand (then again, most hands in LLSNL are bet/fold hands, but most hands aren't as weak as this one is). You want hands that have little equity to continue with us. A person holding KT/KJ is going to call a $20-25 bet, but they are not going to call a $40 bet. Would your small bet look "weak"? Of course, but most LLSNL opponents are not going to pick up on that.

I would go with a $25/fold line.

Heads up that might be OK. It might even be the best line against a stationary villain. I don't like it with 3 villains in hand, even if they are terrible. Bet $25 here and you end up called on flop by all kinds of bad hands that happen to have a medium heart or a straight draw or any pair. You end up getting multiple callers to the turn and suddenly the odds that one will draw out gets high and the pot gets too bloated to bet/fold.

Have you never checked back top pair on the flop before? Betting flop could lead to tougher spots on brick and semi brick turn and river cards. It also allows hero to get value from other TP and second pair hands on non heart turn cards. I'm not saying that betting flop is wrong, just that I probably check it back being four ways with a marginal TP hand

I dont think your missing as much value as you think,we dont really dominate many hands that have top pair.We are NEVER calling a raise here and obviously the bigger we bet the more odds we deny a heart draw.The smaller bet only encourages weaker draws to continue and sometimes even straight draws.

If we are betting so small we might as well just check instead of building a decent sized pot where its hard to call bets on turn/river,there are better boards to value bet on and if your going for such thin value are you just going to keep barreling non and non A boards?

having position here you can bet. oop or one behind i might check. you get calls from good heart hands and maybe one pair hands you can beat. plus they are more afraid of you then you are of them.

if against players who will check raise with a draw then check if you plan on folding it.

I agree with this. KQ is only a decent bluffcatcher right now. Checking lets us evalute how our opponents react to the board

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What bet-sizing would you usually use in this spot, assuming straight forward opponents, and ignoring balancing complications? I'm thinking half pot is sufficient/ideal, but not sure.

i agree with the check/evaluate turn line most of the time. i'd probably bet here 20-25 percent of the time and check back the rest. maybe even bet a slightly lower percentage. i mean, we have no heart and we are 4 way the flop.

i can generally find better value.

checking is fish fold pre if you're gonna check this board. but that depends on the villains doesn't it do we have any info or is it a new table?

$40 or $45 is a perfect flop bet size. wp

generally i like to bet about the size of the pot unless i have reason not to. as that size bet gives me enough read on what he has to keep me out of trouble later in the hand when the big bets come down.

here i might bet somewhat less as i do want to get action from hands i dont know what they are. as i am able to get away easily with this hand. that said i am very careful betting here into someone that will take it away from me later on.

Bet size seems okay.