1/2 NLHE. Hero is BTN with a stack around $160.The two villains in this hand are HJ (V1) and CO (V2) and both cover. Hero has 55.

Preflop action is limped 6 ways. Hero calls. SB now raises to $12. 5 calls including two villains and hero. Preflop pot is $72 less drop = $67.

Flop: QJ5

SB bets $20. Folds around to HJ. Here's where it gets interesting. HJ raises to $50. CO calls.

I put at least one of the Villains on a FD and the other on a SD. I can't completely rule out an overset by V1 (I do not put V2 on an overset, because with all the action, I think V2 would likely reraise since V1 and V2 both have 200BBs +). SB bet is real weak so I'm confident he's folding, and if not, he's on a short stack that wouldn't concern me.

I have $148 left in my stack. Hero???

Reload your stack pre.

I dont think HJ and CO are a concern if they limped pre. The average live fish does not limp QQ and JJ pre. Do you have any reads on them? Have they tried a limp/raise move pre with hands like this? It seems unlikely since others limped in front.

With your stack size and the action you need to jam. Villains can have a mix of diamonds, naked Qs and Js, and some J5cc nonsense which is great. Never underestimate how loose live fish can be when they have 'a piece' of the flop.

I just can't see HJ and CO showing up with bigger sets given the action pre and if the cbetting SB shows up with it then gg.

Shove for sure. Why did you call pre if not to shove a set? Where you hoping for quads?

Unfortunately, max buy in here is 100BB. For Southern California, this is a rare 1/2 game where we can buy in for 100BBs. Most are 50BBs or less.

LOL! Yes. I understand your comment and this is what I usually say when giving advice here. It was just the abnormal aggression from standard passives that bothered me. so many of these folks look at bets in absolute dollars, not as tools to block draws, etc. For them $50 in a 1/2 game is a HUGE bet.

+1

Anything less than a shove is gonna get a lot of calls (maybe everybody) anyway and your stack is light, so maybe you can cull it down to 2 guys or maybe one with the $148! Push and hope to avoid a suckout or the much less likely better set!

One of the villains could easily have QJ here ... Kd Td is possible.

Fist-pump shove it in here and hope for blanks. I don't think I want the Q or J to pair though.

Shove. One is on a flush draw and one has 2 pairs.

Where is this 1-2 game where people are unsure if they should shove 74 BB into a draw heavy flop which contains 71BB with bottom set located?

Grunch: this is an instashove for me.

Do you remember how big the SB's stack is, or have any reads on any of the players, their experience level, etc?

SB has made an abnormally small continuation bet. HJ raises, again relatively small , could have any number of draws, top two, etc. CO calls, given the proportionately small raise sizing and pot size, could again have any number of straight, flush, or combo draws. Honestly, I'd actually be more concerned about the SB having JJ or QQ than the HJ and CO, since overlimping/calling in late postion with a large but not huge pair when there are already multiple callers is really asking for trouble. There's a huge number of hands that they could be playing aggressively there, and massive value in you shoving. If you get set under set, or someone hits a draw, so be it, make a note and move on. You shouldn't play scared of such things on a draw heavy board.

Shove. At least if you lose you can bitch about bad luck to your poker buddies.

This is a dream scenario, just cuz villain raises that flop doesn't mean its a set, Instead its QJ more often based on preflop play. Easy shove!! You must assume this is K10dd or top 2. If it JJ then LOL and reload, but its hardly ever set over set here.

As AT says, if you arent losing big pots with sets you arent playing them right. I am happy with set over set especially for <100bb

LOL at this thread. If you're a new player OP, and seriously think this is a tough spot then sorry. But even if you had Q10 here it might be a stack-off. AQ and KQ it's an instant stack off. With a set, you should be stacking off even if the effective stacks are $900.

Well he's definitely not new and he's definitely better than you are. This is a standard stack off spot with bottom set, but you advocating that AQ and KQ are a stack off in a limped pot shows how bad you really are. We shouldn't even get to that point with either of those hands, nor should we be committed to top pair when villains are showing aggression. Get real.

Thanks folks. I did end up shoving into two pair and a flush draw. SB folded when I shoved.

Just for grins, I stoved the hand this morning based on flush draws, straight draws, and two pair hands that passive players would limp with here:

Board: Qd Jd 5h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 54.851% 54.83% 00.02% 1402140 558.00 { 5c5s }
Hand 1: 22.575% 21.78% 00.79% 557079 20220.00 { JJ, AdJd, AdTd, Ad9d, Ad8d, Ad7d, Ad6d, Ad5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d, KdJd, KdTd, Kd9d, Kd8d, Kd7d, Kd6d, Kd5d, Kd4d, Kd3d, Kd2d, QJs, QdTd, Qd9d, Qd8d, Qd7d, Qd6d, Qd5d, JTs, Jd9d, Jd8d, T9s, Td8d, 9d8d, 9d7d, 8d7d, 8d6d, 7d6d, 7d5d, QJo, J5o, T9o }
Hand 2: 22.575% 21.78% 00.79% 557079 20220.00 { JJ, AdJd, AdTd, Ad9d, Ad8d, Ad7d, Ad6d, Ad5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d, KdJd, KdTd, Kd9d, Kd8d, Kd7d, Kd6d, Kd5d, Kd4d, Kd3d, Kd2d, QJs, QdTd, Qd9d, Qd8d, Qd7d, Qd6d, Qd5d, JTs, Jd9d, Jd8d, T9s, Td8d, 9d8d, 9d7d, 8d7d, 8d6d, 7d6d, 7d5d, QJo, J5o, T9o }

Clear shove.

This is an instashove. Wet board, dead money, easy shove.

Just so you know yoda, those faces are crazy, confused, shocked, mad, sad. In that order.

These entire two sentences by you are absolutely shocking man.

80bbs, a bet, a raise and stacking off with TPworstK? Insta-stacking off 450bbs in a 3way pot with bottom set? I'm not saying getting it in with 55 that deep is rough, but the flop action that would be required to get in 450bbs on this flop would likely be so drastic that getting it in would be -EV so much.

honestly, OP if you are a new player you may want to ignore those sentences. The QT comment the most. wtf yoda?

Grunch.

This is a shove. Look at the SPR, look at your hand, look at the board. I'm not sure what else could even be a possibility.

What else were you thinking about doing OP? (Folding, flatting,raising smaller? All three of those options are really bad, so...shove!)

Thank you for your enlightening advice. Okay - what about this hand? http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17.../#post27942777

You listen to way too much deuce plays...Bart would jam for sure

You just have no clue do you man? You don't even understand that this is NOT a limped pot...If you don't recognize that how can you possibly know what to do here?

Theoretical question: Pot is $100. You have $40 left. You flop top pair, good kicker. One player bets $15, another player shoves. Do you fold? Of course not. That's an extreme example, but what if the pot is $100 and you have $150 left? Do you still fold to flop aggression? No. Somewhere there is a limit where you DO want to fold. With top pair, good kicker, that limit is somewhere around the $200 range. In other words, Top pair, decent kicker with an SPR of 2 is enough to stack off on the flop. Here, the SPR is about 2, so Q10 should be good enough to stack off with.

The strong possibility that other villains have a draw or weaker Q means you should get all in with Q10. I mean, you don't have a sure thing here, you could be drawing dead already or dominated by AQ. But getting it all in should be slightly higher EV than folding (which is $0 EV). It's called variance and it's nothing to be afraid of, you lose sometimes and you win sometimes.

If you had Q10 instead of 55, you should have positive expectation getting all in IF the villain is a known aggro player.

yoda, I think you are really wrong on this thread, your comments about getting in 80bbs with QT the most extreme example. try not to take our comments personally, but go and reread the post we disagreed with.

I would like to say that calling QT "top pair, good kicker" on QJ5 3 ways vs. a bet and a raise otf is a drastic misrepresentation of the strength of QT in this spot.

In this spot QT is a fold I make as fast as I'd fold 22 tbh. QT is never good here.

You know what? Maybe I'm wrong about poker and you are all right. The way I play, there are some extreme swings. I frequently win or lose quite alot of money in one night. Lately, I've been losing a decent amount because I run into strong hands, maybe I'm underestimating villains ranges. But lifetime I'm doing pretty well in poker. I've almost doubled my bankroll so far this summer...although these last few sessions haven't been great.

Here, our all in equity is 40%. If our hand is 40% equity or higher against villain's all in range, then we can play for stacks with Q10 here.

Against

AJs,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad8d,Ad7d,Ad6d,Ad4d,Ad3d,Ad2d,KQs,Kd Td,Kd9d,Q8s+,Td9d,9d8d,AQo,KQo,Q8o+

We are 44.083% equity, so we can stack off with Q10. Again, I think this is a reasonable range for an aggro player. A nit might only have AQ, KQ, and 55 though.

So getting all in isn't a huge huge money maker. Like I said, we will lose the hand more often than we win. But it has higher expectation than folding.

And I'm sorry, but I need you to create a range and show me how we are +EV getting in QT for 80bbs (likely 3ways but let's say HU) vs. a flop bet+raise in a raised pot.

When the bet+raise occurred with a play left to act. On a QJ5. Just to point out, vs. A2 we have 55% equity. I'd say that's around the bottom of any aggro's "getting it in range" for 80bbs. Don't say he calls our shove with **** like T9 man.