My first thread here so apologies if I'm covering ground already trod upon, but I had a hand my last session that got me thinking about this subject in a more general sense and I'd love to hear what the rest of y'all think:

Hero: $418, recently doubled up with a straight flush against a smaller flush. (Hero flopped back door hearts plus str8 draw, hit nut straight on turn and rivered str8 flush, doubled through loose-looking villain who stuck around with 4h2h and donked river and called my shove).

Villain: Approx. $450, same villain as in hand before. I have been at the table 30 minutes and saw him involved in one other hand, where he called a raise OOP, called c-bet, called huge $200 into $125 pot turn bet, then donk-shoved river on dry K high board and got a fold. Might have been terrible play, might have been genius as the lady he did this to was tilting and has been known to bet big with air sometimes.

Hero has Ad6d and calls raise to $6 in position (early position raise, typical 1/2 'potbuilder' raise with multiple callers). 6 players see the flop.

Flop: Kd Qs 9d

Villain donks $40 and gets called by horribad fish on my right (who was in for $700 at this point and was soon to reload another $300). I was going to fold my draw but combination of a) extra dead money from fish and b) potential for fish to remain in the pot made me call (Immediate odds close to 3:1 and implied odds much higher given Villain's stack size). Remainder of table folds.

Turn: Qd

Good and bad news. Villain now checks. My flop range for him was anything from TPTK up through nut straight. Checking now might mean he's filled up and is slowing down or that he hates seeing the paired board.

Fish bets $40, which from him means nothing. Probably a K or something, he would bet any pair from what I'd seen. I call the $40 and Villain calls also. If he really had the nuts here why no raise? We'll call that my first source of confusion.

River: 9c

And I throw up in my mouth a little because that's a horrible card for me.

Villain now bets $200. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!? Fish folds and I go into the tank. Why bet so much? The pot is just under $240 so this is nearly potsize - a huge bomb compared to the way the betting went in the hand so far. We'll call that my second source of confusion.

So: Villain played weak preflop, strong on the flop, weak on the turn and strong on the river, alternating weak calls with potsize bets. In the end I figured his was a hand I was beating up to the river, at which point the 9 saved him. I'd seem him bluff the river once before, but it was for a smaller amount relative to the pot (he bet $60 that time, which was about 1/2 pot). He'd also talked in the hand he paid me off on (the str8 flush) about calling because he didn't think I had the flush because I'd shoved - like he figured big bets were always bluffs and small bets were always value or something).

In the end I folded because I couldn't find a hand in his range that I wasn't losing horribly to, but now with a few days to mull it over I'm wondering if I made the right read.

What would you guys do when faced with this situation?

And more in general: Have you ever seen the typical 1/2 villain bomb the river as a bluff?

I feel like I JUST posted about this lol.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...-have-1090625/

Ah, crap.

Mod, please feel free to delete thread if you think it's warranted.

Sorry for the effective repost, guys.

fold. the board is double paired. if he's bluffing, good for him. i got paid off on a TT664 board the other night when i bombed the river with a 10 and guy couldn't fold his flush. seriously?

i think you are facing KQ here ... about 80 percent of the time. KK, AQ, Q9 the rest of the time.

Nah, no need to delete. Long story short, they almost always seem to have the nuts.

Personally, it seems like the only time I see it done as a bluff is the guy who is trying to give his money away, and he's going to do it in better spots for you anyways.

I agree it doesn't need to be deleted.

In LLSNL, this is going to be a FH far too often to ever make it worthwhile to call.

Im thinking KQ as well. Makes sense.
I really hate the hands that i think about....agonize over for days or weeks. I go back in forth, good fold, no I should have called, no it was a good fold, no i should have called. And then eventually it gets posted here and it's usuallly 50/50. Half say easy call, half say easy fold. It's poker. Not many hands at LLNLH, if any at all, are worth to much agony. Next hand!

I wouldn't consider a $200 bet into a $240 pot a 'bomb' but when somebody bets close to the pot or overbets pot on the river it's almost always the nuts.

I would. You gotta remember it's live, not online. A lot of live fish don't even understand the concept of bet sizing, nor do they count the pot. IMO live 1/2 a $200 bet is HUGE no matter how big the pot is.

I can't tell you how many times I see people bet like $50 here with basically the nuts because they have no idea how to bet size.

It's not saying it can't be a bluff, but I feel like random live fish has not counted the pot as >$200 and is therefore making a PSB. IMO he's either betting huge because "I think bluffs are huge bets" or "I have a huge hand," and "$200 is a lot, therefore I bet $200". And at live 1/2, I you're not going to see many people making huge bets like this as a bluff.