Going on hour 14 of this session that started after working normal 9 hour day.

W - whale 2 to my left. Was moved over to this table with 900 about an hour ago from a broken game. Man in his late fifties that I think normally plays 2/5. Definitely not scared money. Very aggressive, chases lots of draws and generally over values hands by constantly pounding pot or more on every street when taking the lead. Although he didn't know what I had, he got me to fold AA on a Q,7,9,9dd board with big raise over my turn bet earlier. Think I might have been played in this hand but not sure.

V1 - 40 something blue collar kind of dude. Been playing with him for a few hours. Friendly, not a critical thinker. Buys in for table minimum of 60. Overall poor player. One prior hand between us where I doubled him up; hero raises 10 over 1 limper from HJ with K,Qdd V 3bet to 21 out of bb hero calls. V open ships 100 on J,10,6dd and his A,J off suite holds against my mega draws.

V2 late 40's dude. Doesn't talk much at all. Not a thinking player, doesn't ever get out of line and plays very straight forward.

On to the hand.

Hero (290) in HJ over limps 88 after 3 other limps
W (800ish) limps button
V1 (180) completes sb
V2 (325) checks BB
Flop (12) 7,7,8hhs
Checks around to hero who also checks
W bets 10
V1, V2 and hero all call
Turn (52) 7,7,8,6hhsd
V1 leads for 15
V2 calls
Hero raises to 35
W folds - ick
V1 3bets to 70 after not much thought
V2 calls in rhythm
Pot now 227, hero has 243 behind.
What should hero do now?

Thoughts on all action greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using 2+2 Forums

Jam now before the draws brick out. A7, 66, 67, 78, heck even 9T are never folding. Axh may still be in.
Jam now before the action dies on the river.

Is you has raised pre all of the money would be in already.

Would shove before the board gets worse. Dont think they are the type to ever fold a 7

88 for me is sometimes raise pre, others set mining. Late position against a limper or 2 it is almost always a raise.

In this spot against these villains and 3 other undescribed Limpers, it has to be for set mining.

Had I raised to 15 or 20, whale is 100% calling and would have position on me. And whale calling would start a cascade of calling after him, because ya know "pot odds”. Was very common to have 4 - 8 people seeing the flop for 15 - 25 each.

Unless I hit my set, I'd hate every flop multi-way in a bloated pot with aggressive whale to my left.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using 2+2 Forums

I don't understand this chain of thought. raise pre for sure in this spot, We want as much in the pot as possible at all times vs the whale. That's why he's the whale, we don't care if he has position or not?

Flopping top full house in an 8 way opened pot is as good as it ever gets, don't be afraid of this. It's harder to get the max if your unwilling to put $ in before you hit.

as played, I wouldn't jam here. I'd raise but I don't want to loose anyone, $180 is a big raise for this table from description. you say they love "lol pot odds" so give them some such that they can't get away. Then obviously get the rest in on all rivers.

Go to $150ish, price them all in, and then you'll have a small bet in relation to the pot left otr. Plus it will be under $100 for the fish psychological aspect.

I agree with zippy, although we want whale in as much as possible, if we raise and the whale calls there aren't too many flops we will like. Seems like he's stationy. A limp behind is okay imo.

Why not bet the flop? We didn't raise and we flopped the world in a limped pot, why not bet $7 or so because we know the whale is coming along as will a couple of the donks.

As played click it back or GII flip of a coin TBH.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using 2+2 Forums

Didn't bet the flop because I was sure whale would take a stab at it from the button. Then I would act last after seeing how everyone else reacts to that.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using 2+2 Forums

Mini-tank jam, stand up, put on your jacket and say it's time to go home.

Results; hero thinks for a bit then shoves.

V1 tank folds
V2 folds after little thought
Hero is disappointed.

During table talk in next hand, V1 is berating himself for slow playing his A7 on the flop and letting me catch a straight on the turn. Whale can't believe V1 folded A7 and said he is calling with that every time.

I should have won more in this spot. Looking back I'm thinking that just calling V1's turn 3bet would have been best. Then I would have position on the river and in his eyes might have a 7 with a scared kicker. Also doubt V2 is on a draw when he calls V1 3bet. He probably has a straight or fearful 7. If he is on a draw, I want him to hit it.

There really is no river card except maybe a 3rd 7 that scares me. Pot was big enough on the turn to gii on the river without scaring anyone with a bigger than 100 raise from me if either of them leads a decent size on the river. Maybe one of the Vs with a 7 would pair their other card on the river, which would be great for me.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using 2+2 Forums

Oh yeah, and bet the flop damn it.
So many draws to get value from.

We should usually only slow play when we think that we can't get called by worse.
When straight draws, flush draws, 7s and over pairs can all call us here, we should bet.

Usually i do bet this flop, but with whale acting after me i figured he would bet for me letting me keep my hand disguised. Once whale did bet, figured other Vs weren't super strong or they would have check raised.

When we are this strong facing multiple opponents, is there ever a case where we want to let them catch before we act with extreme strength?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using 2+2 Forums

I didn't say you had to 2x pot the flop, or ck/shove.

But that doesn't mean that we can't start to massage money into the pot now. Give those draws a nice price to call. We could even ck/min raise the flop. No one is folding $10 into $70+ at that point. Then we can bet $45 into $100 on the turn when there is already a "mountain" of red chips they are staring at. And when we are raised, it's to $90 instead of $70.

And all of a sudden our pot has $80+ more than it did with the way that we played it.

Also, busted draws can't call the river. So, get some money from them on the flop/turn when they are draws. Just give them a a price that looks reasonable.

Makes sense. Appreciate your feedback.

Getting max value from big hands is something I'm still working on. Need to find right bet sizing to accomplish my goals (either induce a raise, get a call or induce fold) depending on the situation.

And I need to do the math to better plan bet sizes across multiple streets.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using 2+2 Forums

Exactly!!
Raise pre to 10 or 12
Its easier to play for stacks with a raised pot

I would have certainly raised the flop closing the action. I probably would have bet the flop rather than counting on the whale to bet it.

877hh is a juicy enough flop to get a ton of action. It's not like a K82rainbow flop when you have KK. Not at all. When you have a great hand on an action flop, fast play your hand.

Grunch,

You do a good job of describing the Vs, but if you can't hold the mirror up to yourself and detail how you're playing all that information you gave us is kinda abstract. I can't comment on any street without knowing Hero reads, and I don't understand how anyone else can comment without knowing the Hero's image.