Hero: Two hours in and have only played a total of 4 hands. Two of them were 3-bets that the other players folded. One of those hands was Q,Q. And the Villain in the upcoming hand commented only people with A,A 3-bet at this table. Lol okay. But, I was playing very, very tight only raising in position and such.

Villain: A bad lag,always raising preflop, but not always in position. Very aggressive and capable of bluffs. Gets very sticky whenever a flush draw was out there. Saw him call down with A,6 and lose to A,Q

Hero: 190
Villain 1: 400

Villain raises to 10 utg+2, hero looks, one caller in mp, down at As,Kc on the button. Hero calls.
My plan was to disguise my hand and let v1 hang himself by Donk betting.
Pot: 33
Flop: 7h Ah 2 c
V1 leads out for 15, mp folds, I call.
Flush draw or smaller ace is what put him on.

Turn: 2s
V1 bets 40. Hero calls

Pot: 110
River: 9c
V1 goes all in. Hero?

A few things on this.

1) Playing that tight and never loosening up can take its toll. Constantly surrendering your blinds and the button is something I wouldn't advise so playing more than 4/50 hands is probably a good idea.
2) I understand disguising your AK and don't hate it. That being said, you do need to find out where you stand. A second 2 came on the turn, would Villain play A2? 32 suited? How laggy is he? Ultimately, I think you have to raise that turn bet to see where you stand. You have 115 behind so I probably make it 90ish total and see what happens. Ultimately, if he flats, you can rest a bit easier and if he shoves, you know where you are at and save yourself that decision on the river.

Stopped reading right there.

OP, I would have suggested 3betting pre for value. Bad LAGs overestimate their postflop ability and love to play any kind of hands, even in 3bet pots.

As played, if you put V on a flush draw or smaller Ace, you have to raise the flop for value.

As played, call river. Your hand is severely underrepped and looks like a busted flush draw that he may be trying to bluff out.

2 things: 1) i missed your read on the guy and agreed with the previous poster that raising flop is the move to make.
2) I think the issue is sitting at a 1/2 table and playing < 10% of hands. You are playing your hand face-up. If you are losing 3 bucks every orbit and only playing hands where you 3-bet a premium hand, you are losing any equity, except if up against absolutely terrible players. That is the sole reason why for me, changing it up and not 3-betting, is beneficial.

+1 to HH2010. You were letting him hang himself, what changed your plan on the river? Can you elaborate more on why he is a "BAD" LAG? You seem to play a totally different style, and it may be just that you do not agree with his plays.

I disagree with raising the turn to 90ish, puts 75% of your remaining stack in and you CANNOT fold for 35 more if he repops. I just don't understand what this accomplishes, you will only fold worse hands.

The premise of this post is what do I do since he shoved? That is telling me, in the context of this hand and of the original poster, we are questioning where we are at. We have yet to take control of this hand and extract any information.

We are now in danger of folding to his shove on the river because of this. For a more beginner player, you need to understand not only what you have but what the other player has as well. While for some, that may through table reads and replaying why X did this on the flop and what he did 12 hands ago, it does not work for all players.

(Not raising turn 90 but making it 90 total (including initial 40).)

Grunch: raise preflop... Pop it up, let's 3ball to 55 here... Why are we flatting? We have a premium in position vs a bad lag... We should prob be 3b a bunch more value hands depending how wide this lag is pre, but certainly AK

As played raise flop small, call turn/river you know this guy better than we do but I would probably fold since people rarely pound it for 3 streets like this w air

3 bet pre. Raise flop. Raise turn. Call river.

Really good advice guys thanks. I think I should of 3-bet pre and raised flop. Why I thought he was a bag lag was because he couldn't hand read very well. Like he called down with A,6 after someone showed aggression against him. Good lags know how to fold and he didn't so maybe I should of put that under my read of him. Also, I'll loosen up and play a few more hands was just a cold deck for me and I don't like playing oop if I can help it.

My questions are:
How much are we raising flop? What is our line if a heart comes?

im ok to flat AK here to balance my range but if im ~100bb my default play is 3bet.
we need to build the pot to GII in the river, flop is good to get some value vs Ax and draws so I'm raising then turn sizing should be enough for a river shove.

I recommend 3-betting pre for value. If you want to get tricky with AK pre and just flat, do it with AKs, which plays better multiway. Then you will be 3-betting AK 3/4ths of the time and flatting it 25%.

After the flop, you played it perfectly. Raising is terrible. Never ever do that. Raising with 1-pair hands, generally speaking, folds out worse pairs and air and gets him to continue with sets and two pair and the like.

Now call the river. He can be triple barreling. But more likely, he is using his lag image to value own us with AQ/AJ. Well, he thinks he's value owning us.

If he shows up with better it's just a minicooler. We're never folding TPTK for 90bbs when the draws miss, especially against a LAG. The stack sizes, board, and player type make this a very straightforward call.

JFC. Raise pre, raise flop, raise turn, raise/call/shove river.

Lol +100

I would 3- bet to about $40 pre. raise 3/4 pot with that flop and push turn.

I think this above line is perfect against this lag, 3b pre to start building a pot. I like the raise on flop for value, he's gonna need some type of hand here for you to get paid so FD and weak ace fit that bill then turn you are sized correctly to shove.

As played it's a call, not sure what your plan was for the river once you called turn if your contemplating folding here.

Just wanted to add, I don't mind your style of play, sometimes tight is the best way to learn and make a small profit and is very low variance style but also depends on table dynamics, one you have the image though you have to take advantage of it because if your playing with good regs they will adjust so you have to readjust.

I see no point in raising any street. As long as a decent sized bet is going in on each street, we can be content because 90bb stacks are going in. Certainly if he bet $15 on the turn I'd raise him, but a $143 pot on the river is fine (the math in the OP is wrong somewhere). It will be hard for him to fold any ace if we shove the river. It looks like we have a busted flush draw. We are only shoving 120 or so.

But raising the flop or turn blows him off his air and makes him fold flush draws and weak aces correctly, especially with our tight image.

If he bets small, we raise him small. If he checks, we bet enough to get stacks in by the river. If he bets enough to get stacks in, we call. That's a good plan for every street. That's how this hand should be played imo.

You didn't do yourself any favors trying to "disguise" your hand. You should have raised preflop: when you raise, you narrow his range and postflop play is easier if you hit your hand - he can't put you to difficult decisions postflop because stacks are too short.

Raise to 30 pre. The postflop pot will be 60-90 depending on callers. Now you have 60-90 in the pot, eff stacks 160. You're committed once you hit: bet / raise and get it in. Easy game

grunch: call

i have a feeling i'll be alone on this, but i like your line against a lagtard. i love nothing more than going into call down mode in position against extreme lags. sometimes you lose, but i think you pick up a lot of "bluff money" you wouldn't if you fired out. i think being more aggressive would have been fine too, including 3-bet pre. but depending on villain, i may have played this the exact same as you.

also note, that if you get more aggressive on any street and inflate the pot... you're likely not folding anyway as you'd have priced yourself in with tptk (except maybe if villain shoved preflop... or maybe shoved flop... but even on the flop i'm not sure i'd go away).

i expect you lost and that's why you're posting. it's a relatively dry board. but sometimes lag's have big hands.

gl

Raise pre!!!
As played raise flop.
As played flat turn.
As played call river.

I agree. I really don't understand why so many people are saying raise flop. Just let the LAG apply pressure with his weak range and call him down.

Also, apparently Hero has hardly played any hands, which is another reason not to raise the flop.

Villain is betting rather smallish (less than half pot) into 2 opponents. If he was trying to blow people off of their hand, he would bet bigger. This should tell us he wants a call, either a value hand like Ax, a flush draw, or sometimes a strong hand that beats us (random 2 pair or a set). Our hand vs this range has strong equity. Lagtards are usually prettty sticky as well, so most likely he is not going to fold if we raise. Just raise now to make it easier to get stacks in on the turn. On the flop this feels a lot like a flush draw. If we saw his cards face up and they were 2 hearts, would you still flat and let him barrel, or would you raise and take away the initiative so we can pound the turn?

* And to the guy who says never raise 1 pair hands, that is just absurd. It's ok to play a nitty game and only raise the nuts, but you will be missing out on TONS of value. In general its better to try and maximize winnings rather than minimize losses (which is what your game seems to advocate).

By definition, LagTards are usually not folding these hands to a raise OTF. Flatting just means were losing value.

Let's be honest, there's just no way you can put this "LAG" villain on a flush draw on the basis of a single cbet, no matter how big or small it is. In my opinion his range should be much wider.

If he did have a flush draw and I would indeed be able to see his cards, I'm not sure I would raise the flop. Should I? I'm thinking I might rather call and raise/shove a safe turn, assuming he would keep on barreling. Does anyone know what would get us the most value? (If you take as a given that he would barrel any turn, but not fold to a raise on the flop.)

The OP also says LAgtard called down with A6 earlier and lost to AQ so why shouldn't we raise here for value if we have that type of knowledge?

For those recommending 3b PF, how does a 3b look to when hero has played 4 total hands? What's the range is villain gonna put hero on? AA-QQ/AK?


Just based on combos alone villain more likely has an Ax/pairs than a FD

Hero's plan was to call down a lag with a disguised hand so why is this hand posted in the first place is? You got the best run out you can... If you lost to river A9 or 99 it sucks but stick with your plan.

And if we want to raise, imo, the best time is on the turn. This way atleast we get 2 streets of value from villain, keep his bluffs in, and not allow him to play perfect poker folding under pairs to an Ace.


Lastly, because he called down with A6 n lost to AQ doesn't mean he cannot read hands. What if he and the other villain had such dynamics and felt his Ace was good??

How likely is he to play the same way vs you??