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<img - AA vs 2 loose players <img - AA vs 2 loose players

08-03-2010 , 12:52 AM
Hero's stack $300
BB's stack $450
Crazy Asian Guy - CAG - $200

2 limp in to hero in mid position who looks down at AdAh and makes it $15 (my raises have varied from $8-15 depending on how many limpers and my position)
Call from CAG and call from the big blind

Reads: BB is young agro kid who is raising and reraising a lot of hands and has showed a couple big bluffs with air, nobody has played back at him to this point and his stack is around $450

CAG- is pretty loose and weak, calls and no raises and no reraises
Flop 2 10 5 rainbow ($50)

BB checks, Hero bets $40, CAG calls, BB repops to $100
Hero runs ranges for villian thru his head and decides he can show up with KK,QQ,JJ, A10, sets, and even air, considers folding but considers BB's range to be pretty wide.
Hero shoves.
CAG folds.
BB thinks maybe 15 seconds and I am thinking I got him, then he calls and tables 55 for a set

turn brick and river brick

So i guess i want to know, how spewey is my shove? Usually at $1/$2 a reraise indicates superb strength, but this kid was LAGing it up pretty good as it was a generally older table who liked playing the small ball poker.

Thanks beforehand all!
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08-03-2010 , 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas374
So i guess i want to know, how spewey is my shove? Usually at $1/$2 a reraise indicates superb strength, but this kid was LAGing it up pretty good as it was a generally older table who liked playing the small ball poker.

Thanks beforehand all!
You should avoid posting outcomes of your hand to prevent bias analysis etc.

Reading through your play by play account of the hand at the spot where the villian check min-raises you to $100, I figured it was a set. Why? Because if he cares about his wild image, he'd think exactly: "I'll c/r here as he'll think I'm just a wild horse and won't give me credit for much anything". He doesn't want to c/c on the flop because it would seem like an out of character play. He wants to make sure that he's getting paid for his set.

On such a weak board, I don't mind a call here too and a check back on turn to see how your opponent reacts. I don't like a shove here under most circumstances though. With a shove, you are only getting called by hands that beat you. Even an AT in the hands of an idiot would still get folded most of the time.
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08-03-2010 , 02:05 AM
Don't think the shove is that spewy since as you pointed out you could get called by over pair pockets which are well within the range. But some food for thought:

i think the raise of $100 looks suspicious, since CAG called your bet which makes the pot $130 and it only really costs you both $60 to call so I don't think its a bluff considering that you'd probably call with a very wide range after your initial bet.

Additionally, if CAG calls he's probably going to commit himself since he'd have to put 50%+ of his stack in there, so I feel that CAG can either fold or shove.

Shoving all-in by all means is not a bad play since you'd get called by worse but I feel it could fold out some of BB and CAG range of hands that you beat e.g. A-10.

But I'd probably have called with the intention of getting it all-in on later streets via call or bets since CAG could shove and it'll commit BB if he plays back etc. which would give us more $$ in the pot when we did win.

Oh and btw if you think about it the hands that BB could have that beat you are 22, 55 and 10-10 and hands you beat when shoving are KK, QQ, JJ. He is equally likely to have both if he's the type to flat call with any of these hands.
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08-03-2010 , 04:58 AM
I don't like the shove. I think we can let it go here with these stack sizes. Obviously we don't want anyone to know how big a hand we are folding otherwise they'll start check raising us with air.

I guess it just depends how crazy BB really is. If he is a confirmed spewy maniac then we get it in here without too much thought.

In my view BB thinks hero has an overpair and he is representing better than 1 pair on an extremely dry board without position.
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08-03-2010 , 05:25 AM
It can never be that bad to get in 150BB with Aces on a 10-5-2 board vs a really aggro player. I like a call a lot better tho. Folding is out of the question vs this guy so the best way to continue is to call b/c calling lets him keep firing with his air. There aren't really any scare cards to kill your action either, so it's not like calling loses you value vs KK-JJ, A10 etc.. CALL
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08-03-2010 , 10:47 AM
Personally I think your play is fine...although if he "slowrolled" you with a set then maybe he was tighter than you gave him credit for and would have folded a10-kk. However IMO on a dry board against an aggro player here you're kind of destined to go broke. I think it's way too weak to be folding for $60 more and while calling does have some merit, I think we will be stacking off on almost any turn card regardless. On some hands we are just destined to lose
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08-03-2010 , 05:41 PM
I'm just saying:
How would this have played out if you just checked flop? Think about it.
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08-03-2010 , 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crsseyed
I'm just saying:
How would this have played out if you just checked flop? Think about it.
if i had checked, BB would have bet, I would have check raised, and BB would have shoved and I would have called...

I'd rather be the one shoving than the one calling.
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08-04-2010 , 12:15 AM
What is your image at the table? If the villain pegs you as a thinker, noticing that he is able to make some plays with air (or was he advertising that, trying to set up a play like he put on you?) then maybe you can put the pieces of the puzzle together and find a fold at some point... Unlikely though. AA figures to get called by worse on this board often.
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08-04-2010 , 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas374
if i had checked, BB would have bet, I would have check raised, and BB would have shoved and I would have called...

I'd rather be the one shoving than the one calling.
I guess my point is, why do you want to play allin for stacks on the flop w/AA being 150BB deep? What do you think BB has here if he called your preflop raise and now gets allin on the flop?

If you checked this flop, flop would have been checked around. BB would then bet on turn. Your play is then to just call. People see AA and see $$ and get greedy and go "allin, wahoo". When you're this deep practice pot control, even w/AA. Preflop, sure get it allin. Postflop, always be wary especially deep.
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