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1/2 AA in MP facing flop overbet 1/2 AA in MP facing flop overbet

02-06-2016 , 06:03 PM
Second orbit at the table, so no real reads other than this seems like a typical 1-2 table. A decent amount of raising to between 10-15 and getting a few callers to flop. Only hand I've played was AQo which I called a 15 raise with from EP after 3 people had already called. I c/f flop.

V in the hand had recently gotten stacked for about 100 on the hand where I had AQ. I checked flop of J34dd and he shoved from CO with ~60. Button (and orig raiser) called with AJ, other players folded. V showed a FD and AJ held up. So he has recently rebought for 200.

OTTH

H in MP, ~250 with red aces. Three folds to H, who makes it 10. In retrospect, this sizing seems small. I think 15-20 is probably better. Thoughts? 5 callers to the flop, including V who calls from SB, leaving him with about 160 behind.

F: Jh9s8h

SB donks out for 75. Folds to H with two players behind. H covers one of the opponents and is covered by the other. Thoughts at this point are that V's range is hugely draw heavy. Sets and two pair likely check. I think a (combo)draw is most likely. With two players left behind me, I lean toward a fold. My thinking is that I've only invested 10 into this pot and I'd be playing for stacks with a hand that, while maybe ahead, is not super likely to stay there if he has a decent draw (ThXh comes to mind). Against sets I'm a huge dog and two pair also has me beaten. Even with the BDFD, I think it's better to fold and wait for a better spot. Too nitty? Is anyone flatting and shipping safe turns? Calling and folding flop, if someone comes over the top?

Not sure if I'm overthinking this. All feedback appreciated.
1/2 AA in MP facing flop overbet Quote
02-06-2016 , 06:20 PM
Yeah, pre is too small. Raise as much as you can and still likely get at least one caller.

As played, I fold. Pot is ~60 and SB leads out for 75 into PFR on a dripping board. Sets and 2P don't want to check this and let it get checked around. Also, SB is leading into 5 people. You have the boss heart, so it's not an NFD. If you call, pot is 210 and SB has 85 behind, so you're actually effectively calling 160. There are two people behind you that could have hands even if SB doesn't.

As an aside, avoid considering how much you have invested. It's irrelevant whether the pot money came from you or not. Also, avoid thinking in terms of waiting for better spots. Future spots don't affect the EV of this one.
1/2 AA in MP facing flop overbet Quote
02-06-2016 , 06:21 PM
Why did you make it ten. Worst flop ever created. Every hand plays better heads up reference annie dukes book. Even 87s 5way in a limped pot, you'd still rather play your hand heads up. So when you get five callers just remember the play for the hand should be basically set in stone before the players hit the line of scrimmage. So basically, If the play is screwed up in the huddle no amount of audibles are going to save you and it's better to play smart poker or pull on one of the most important disciplines in poker discipline IMO hope made sense

EDIT: Some math guy should show up, I bet the answer for this post is more math related than action but I have no clue I barely made it through OP but good post

Last edited by tmacTheorySSAnne; 02-06-2016 at 06:25 PM. Reason: bad mind/memory
1/2 AA in MP facing flop overbet Quote
02-07-2016 , 04:13 AM
I'd probably just fold
1/2 AA in MP facing flop overbet Quote
02-07-2016 , 04:49 AM
Open up notepad and start writing down all the hands you'd want to be holding in this spot starting with QThh and so on.... Where does AAh rank? Fold.
1/2 AA in MP facing flop overbet Quote
02-07-2016 , 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan
Open up notepad and start writing down all the hands you'd want to be holding in this spot starting with QThh and so on.... Where does AAh rank? Fold.
Agreed.

This is one of the absolute worst flops possible for your hand, someone just overbet the pot into you, and there are still players left to act. Even if you're ahead, it's likely you're in a race against a pair + draw type hand. Yes, there are a lot of draws, but I'd expect the ones that are taking this line are the ones you're flipping against (but more likely sets and 2 pair, against which you have ~3-6 outs).

If people have been raising $15 and getting multiple callers, start raising $15 + $2 per limper, or even more.
1/2 AA in MP facing flop overbet Quote
02-07-2016 , 03:57 PM
You block the NFD so there are several draws we can eliminate from SB range. His draws are strong combos / pair+draws that have significant equity. We have players to act behind facing an overbet that has committed villain on one of the worst possible multiway flops for our hand.

I don't hate a fold here. I can see v doing this with sets, 2p, straights and even weak flushes.

Agree slightly larger pre.
1/2 AA in MP facing flop overbet Quote
02-07-2016 , 04:46 PM
The raise is small, however I have been in spots where you are raising to $30 pre and get 5 callers. Regardless, even if you had made a larger pre bet and with a flop like that, what do you do with a pot sized bet? I think you have to let it go.
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02-07-2016 , 08:05 PM
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I tank folded, and everyone else at the table folded as well. SB didn't show and dragged the pot.
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