Hi all. Just had a session where a very peculiar hand came about. In involved what I will call an Old Man Aggro (OMA). Said villain sat down not but 45 minutes prior and came out firing. Walks over to the table and immediately straddles UTG w/o sitting down or having chips. Exposing a bunch of air and garbage whenever he wins a pot, ect. Starting stack ~$200

Villain 2 was playing fairly tight and ABC. Nothing out of line. Entered pots maybe 50/50 between limps and raises. Of those limps probably folding to a PFR another 50% of the time. Effective stacks between us ~ $250.

I'm dealt AA in ep. UTG+1 open limps. Standard raises were anywhere from $8-12. I make it $11 (only had one blue chip in my stack). OMA calls in SB. UTG+1, fairly quickly, grabs chips and reraises to $37.

To note is that I'm only now remembering the l/rr. I must not have been paying attention but I'm pretty sure he limped because he wasn't in the BB and OMA was definitely SB.

Anyway, I consider my options and though Villain 2 is showing a lot of strength, I don't really want to blow him off a hand like QQ+. I had a fairly tight image at this point. Keeping OMA in the hand was essential to my decision, and I opt to call. OMA follows as expected.

Flop ($120) comes K10x rainbow.

OMA almost immediately shoves his $160 remaining stack. Villain 2 quickly shoves all in. I sigh and look over to V2 who is giving me a serious look and telling me "King is no good". AA and the thought of a chop come across my mind.

At this point I'm not at all worried about OMA, just what hand Villain 2 has. Seeing the flop King put me a little off. As KK just got there. Needing more info I ask V2 if Aces are any good. He kind of just shrugs it off. By this point he has been standing up while I'm tanking, very concerned look on his face.

Curious if I should always be calling here.

Flat pre is okay given the short stacks and fish.

Do you think V2 l/rr with AK? That's the important question. This is usually only AA or KK but was there a dynamic of l/rr because OMA was raising light?

I lean toward fold pending the answer to that question.

No, that kind of dynamic wasn't really there.

I didn't have a great grasp on what Villain 2 was capable of. He seemed competent but was playing tight and mostly passive postflop. Weighted him much more towards KK/AA than AK.

Also, I know OMA is a fish, but do you really think his shove on this board is meaningless? He should know one of you two generally has a strong hand that isn't folding on Kxx...?

Eh, maybe not meaningless. Seemed a little out of line even by his standards but top of his range could probably include AK/K10/TT, which we're not doing great against. That however didn't factor into my decision as much as V2 who quickly shoved over.

I'll hold off on posting results.

Gonna go with fold then. V2 has almost exclusively KK or AA, and OMA might have hit something here.

Not so fast...

If V2 has top set...why shove so quick over the top and give what you say....uh....K no good??

When you have top set and you're not worried about some silly old fish spewing...you generally take a moment to think a tad about the other person and their stack and how to get it

I think more likely AK here or TT

I'd probably call and lose though

Or fold and berate myself when OMA turns over JJ and V2 turns over AK

Was V2 losing or tilty? The only logical reason I can think of to talk somebody out of a call while your holding a nutted hand is if he just doesnt want to sweat the draw, precieve you to have some kind of QJ type hand?

We have to remember to discount AA somewhat because we have the other two aces. I also dont think hes L/RR with AK. In my observations this move is almost always QQ+ and I don't think QQ open ships the K high board especially with the fishy old guy who doesn't sound like he came here to fold. This is a very strong line but we have really underepped our hand.

If this is me, im folding and waiting for a better spot. I don't like to stack off hoping for a chop. these guys are just showing way too much strength

Grunch:

Def 4bet for fat value.

I'd make it $80 pre and shove all flops.

Results

Call it off

V2 never has KK. Never.

I agree the only set from V2 is TT, if he would even consider raising with that hand PF. I wouldn't put it past OMA having KT/TT though. An ABC player can get excited and insta-shove without regard to the rest of the table though ... KK is out there a little but not very often.

The comments pretty much narrow his hands down to AA/TT since generally people will tell you a hand 'just' below what they have when commenting and that puts him squarely on AA. A set wouldn't be as concerned about a Kx hand. His concern puts him on no more than a pair IMO, so I guess its AA. Still not sure why he doesn't want what he feels is a lessor hand to call.

I probably would kick myself for not 4-betting PF to get HU somehow (or just be happy with a 20% increase in my stack) and fold knowing that I can get OMA in a better spot later. I hate it though ... OMA is drawing 95% of the time here and we block QJ with our AA. This is just a gut check at the table feel ... I don't like it, fold (but 'just this time'). GL